How should Ashkenazi Jews identify if Middle Eastern & North African becomes a race on the census?

[Myanthropologies]

The likelyhood of MENA becoming a race on the census is actually really low (they've been pushing since the 90s). However, let's say that it hypothetically did become a category, how should Jews identify? I thought about this because there is a bunch of articles circulating on Facebook about how Jews became "white" in America over time, and how they aren't/how donald trump'trump's presidency may change that.

Then on TheApricity, I hear people saying that they are White and European because they genetically cluster with Sicilians, but that's just ignoring their (direct) MENA heritage that is unique to them, other Europeans don't have that. Ashkenazi Jews may be white, but they are definitely not Europeans imo. Not genetically, not heritage wise, not culturally, and historically. You cannot name a single other group in Europe that has only been native to Europe for just 2500 years, you cannot paint the history of Ashkenazi's heritage without Israel and the Middle East, and for many centuries, Europeans told them to go back to Palestine and treated them like non-Europeans. I don't even refer to them as "European" Jews. And in reality, Ashkenazis are probably only 1/4 directly European by ancestry, if you take the European ancestry that's already in Levantines to account.

So if the next census were to say "White" means of European descent, should Ashkenazis identify as that or as Middle Eastern if it comes down to it?

[Hamza]

Ashkenazi Jews are the ultimate founding fathers of the modern European civillizations. They gave Europe culture, image, economy, infrastructure, Nobel prize winners, inventors, scientists, anthropology and not at last the Bible.


Genetically Ashkenazi Jews are 2-3 times closer to South Italians, Greeks, Spanish, Tuscans than to Middle Easerners and equally distant between White Americans and Palestinians.

[Myanthropologies]

Ashkenazi Jews are the ultimate founding fathers of the modern European civillizations. They gave Europe culture, image, economy, infrastructure, Nobel prize winners, inventors, scientists, anthropology and not at last the Bible.

Wrong. This is a slap in the face to the Ancient Greeks and Romans.

[LoLeL]

Let Ashkenazi Jews decide for themselves.

[Myanthropologies]

Ashkenazi Jews are the ultimate founding fathers of the modern European civillizations. They gave Europe culture, image, economy, infrastructure, Nobel prize winners, inventors, scientists, anthropology and not at last the Bible.


Genetically Ashkenazi Jews are 2-3 times closer to South Italians, Greeks, Spanish, Tuscans than to Middle Easerners and equally distant between White Americans and Palestinians.

This is so wrong. Between White Americans and Palestinians? Ashkenazis are genetically even closer to Saudis and Bedouins than to even the French. They are as far from white americans as Armenians are.

Messina:

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 50.67
2 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 26.73
3 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 18.44
4 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 2.42
5 Sub_Saharan 1.74

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Ashkenazi 2.08
2 Italian_South 3.18
3 Sicilian 3.55
4 Jew_Moroccan 4.62
5 Jew_Libyan 6.3
6 Greek 6.58
7 Jew_Tunisian 6.73
8 Albanian 8.1
9 Armenia_ChL 9.74
10 Cypriot 9.9
11 Bulgarian 12.72
12 Turkish 13.26
13 Lebanese 13.64
14 Druze 13.8
15 Romanian 14.56
16 Jordanian 14.79
17 Syrian 14.86
18 Palestinian 15.01
19 BedouinA 16.71
20 Saudi 17.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.8% Sardinian + 41.2% Iran_LN @ 1.02
2 54.6% Europe_EN + 45.4% Iran_N @ 1.12
3 59% Bulgarian + 41% Levant_BA @ 1.4
4 62.5% Europe_EN + 37.5% CHG @ 1.42
5 56.7% Sardinian + 43.3% Kurd_F @ 1.44
6 58.6% Levant_BA + 41.4% Norwegian @ 1.49
7 61.1% Levant_BA + 38.9% Europe_LNBA @ 1.5
8 58% Levant_BA + 42% Scottish @ 1.52
9 64.9% Druze + 35.1% Basque @ 1.58
10 50.3% Levant_BA + 49.7% Croatian @ 1.58
11 74% Greek + 26% Levant_BA @ 1.61
12 57.8% Levant_BA + 42.2% Ukrainian @ 1.61
13 55.7% Romanian + 44.3% Levant_BA @ 1.67
14 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Levant_BA @ 1.68
15 89.4% Jew_Ashkenazi + 10.6% Cypriot @ 1.72
16 60.5% Levant_BA + 39.5% Icelandic @ 1.73
17 94.4% Jew_Ashkenazi + 5.6% Jew_Iranian @ 1.74
18 54.2% Levant_BA + 45.8% Hungarian @ 1.77
19 92.6% Jew_Ashkenazi + 7.4% Druze @ 1.77
20 62.9% Levant_BA + 37.1% Estonian @ 1.77

[LieDetector]

Askenazi's are actually European bro

http://www.livescience.com/40247-ash...ean-genes.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/sc...inds.html?_r=0

[Myanthropologies]

Askenazi's are actually European bro

http://www.livescience.com/40247-ash...ean-genes.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/sc...inds.html?_r=0

Your article says that they trace half their ancestry from the middle east. Why do people suddenly pretend that ashkenazis are Europeans? They may be white, but they are not Europeans imo.

[Longbowman]

Ashkenazis are a mixture of both, if the census decides whites and MENAs are different races (they aren't IMO) then Ashkenazis should put mixed race.

[Myanthropologies]

Ashkenazis are a mixture of both, if the census decides whites and MENAs are different races (they aren't IMO) then Ashkenazis should put mixed race.

I think the census is more inclined to class race based on social norms of race rather than genetical. But Arabs have been pushing for a category since like 1993, no success

[Myanthropologies]

I think what lbm says is right. They are like any other mixed euro-mena person. Calling an Ashkenazi a pure European would be a lie, and so would calling them a pure Middle Easterner. They have direct semitic roots that Europeans do not have, a history that Europeans do not have, but the same could be said in regards to the Middle East as well.