Is England a Truly germanic country?

[Bloody]

Well, in your first post you said: "Language barely germanic (tons of lattin, french influences)"

Regardless of appearance, the British and northern French are genetically the next most Germanic after Germans themselves. Calling us semi-Germanic is fine by me.

Brits and Northern French more germanic than Dutch or Scandinavians? Anyways Dutch and NW Germans are probably the most quintessential germanic people with lack of both atlantid or baltic influence. English have tons of atlantids which is often linked with western seaboard (this western european) rather than germanic.

[Turul Karom]

It is more of a Germanic country in old culture rather than in modern practice. just like modern Hungary is very Europeanized and modern Turkey very Anatolian despite their Asiatic and turkic roots. However, England has had multiple lines of German royal families, even in recent history. I'd say that given current population demographics of England, the upper class of England has a better chance of being German/Germanic than the lower or middle classes.

[Wanderer]

Although there is a large % of Latin-derived words in an English dictionary, the average proportion of words in everyday usage of English must be at least 80% Germanic in my estimation.

Yes, the most used words are germanic, like the connectors.

It's highly variable. 80% seems like a fair approximation for everyday language. But in other forms of communication, it seems that Latin & Greek words can even attain a majority, despite the fact that you need many basic Germanic-origin connector words, as you said, which naturally inflate the numbers of Germanic words...

A survey by Joseph M. Williams in Origins of the English Language of 10,000 words taken from several thousand business letters gave this set of statistics:[2]

French (langue d'oïl): 41%
"Native" English: 33%
Latin: 15%
Old Norse: 5%
Dutch: 1%
Other: 5%[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_...nce_in_English

Keep in mind that the vast majority of French words in the English language are Latin (some are Germanic in origin, but it's a rather small minority). So for practical purposes, you can combine the two categories above. So if we assume that the aforementioned 80 percent is valid for simple language, then that's probably the maximum Germanic character; the minimum would appear to be under 50 percent.

Another factor to consider is that Latin (and to a lesser extent, Greek) words really give the language most of its substance, especially in more academic forms of speech (e.g., scientific, political, legal, medical, etc.).

[Neon Knight]

Brits and Northern French more germanic than Dutch or Scandinavians? Anyways Dutch and NW Germans are probably the most quintessential germanic people with lack of both atlantid or baltic influence. English have tons of atlantids which is often linked with western seaboard (this western european) rather than germanic.

No, of course Danes, Norwegians and (southern) Swedes are more Germanic than the Britsh are, I wasn't excluding them. But look at my GEDmatch Eurogenes Oracle DNA results (and I'm almost half Irish):



K13 Oracle Populations

Orcadian 5.93
Southeast English 5.98
Southwest English 6.04
Irish 6.29
North Dutch 6.56
South Dutch 6.65
North German 6.81
Danish 7.02
West Scottish 7.2
West German 7.77
Norwegian 8.08
Swedish 8.98
Austrian 11.47
East German 11.55
French 11.74
North Swedish 14.06
Hungarian 16.35
Spanish Cataluna 18.49
Southwest French 18.6
Spanish Cantabria 19.49


K15 Oracle

Southwest English 5.01
South Dutch 6.03
Southeast English 6.07
Danish 6.79
North German 6.95
North Dutch 6.98
Irish 7.47
West Scottish 7.48
West German 7.65
Orcadian 7.81
Norwegian 8.75
West Norwegian 9.99
French 10.01
Swedish 10.3
East German 11.05
North Swedish 11.62
Southwest Finnish 15.44
Austrian 15.6
Hungarian 16.1
Spanish Galicia 17.55

Unfortuantely, there are no samples for Northern French populations, but I'm sure I would be very close to them as well.

[Peterski]

Genetically, all British are approximately 50% Germanic

Nope. The English are no more than 30% Germanic. And other British - even less.

This estimate can be found in all most recent genetic studies on this subject (links):

1) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/07/17/022723

PDF: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...22723.full.pdf

2) http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10326

PDF: http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ncomms10326

3) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture14230.html

PDF: http://www.nature.com.sci-hub.cc/nat...ture14230.html

4) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/05/07/052084

PDF: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...52084.full.pdf

5) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/05/27/055855

PDF: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...55855.full.pdf

Also the English are more similar to Iron Age Celts than they are to Anglo-Saxon immigrants (the latter were most similar to modern Scandinavians and North Dutch). Recently I have uploaded Hinxton-1 to GEDmatch (he was a Celt who lived in Britain before the Roman conquest, he lived at some time between 160 BC and 26 AD), and he was more similar to modern Scottish and English people, than to modern Irish (which shows that Goidelic Celts living in Ireland were not genetically the same as some of Celtic groups in Britain):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4115859

(the Celtic Britons were themselves partially Germanic).

No they weren't.

Insular Celts had no contact with Germanic people before the Roman times. More likely it was the other way around - Germanic people in Denmark being partially Celtic - considering that there were many Celtic loanwords in Proto-Germanic language, but no any Germanic loanwords in Proto-Celtic language.

Celts are generally an older, more ancient ethnicity, than Germanic people.

[Neon Knight]

Another factor to consider is that Latin (and to a lesser extent, Greek) words really give the language most of its substance, especially in more academic forms of speech (e.g., scientific, political, legal, medical, etc.).

Another big factor, of course, is the grammatical structure which is Germanic or at least uniquely English.

[Bloody]

Nope. The English are no more than 30% Germanic. And other British - even less.

This estimate can be found in all most recent genetic studies on this subject (links):

1) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/07/17/022723

PDF: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...22723.full.pdf

2) http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10326

PDF: http://www.readcube.com/articles/10.1038/ncomms10326

3) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture14230.html

PDF: http://www.nature.com.sci-hub.cc/nat...ture14230.html

4) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/05/07/052084

PDF: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...52084.full.pdf

5) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/05/27/055855

PDF: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...55855.full.pdf

Also the English are more similar to Iron Age Celts than they are to Anglo-Saxon immigrants (the latter are most similar to modern Scandinavians and North Dutch). Recently I uploaded Hinxton-1 to GEDmatch (he was a Celt who lived in Britain before the Roman conquest, he lived at some time between 160 BC and 26 AD), and he was more similar to modern Scottish and English people, than to modern Irish people (which shows that Goidelic Celts living in Ireland were not genetically the same as some of Celtic groups in Britain):

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4115859



No they weren't.

Insular Celts had no contact with Germanic people before the Roman times. More likely it was the other way around - Germanic people in Denmark being partially Celtic - considering that there were many Celtic loanwords in Proto-Germanic language, but no any Germanic loanwords in Proto-Celtic.

true germanic/anglo saxon ancestry runs from 0-30%, it reaches only 30% in eastern england and south-west scotland... the rest have lower values.

[Peterski]

BTW, I also uploaded to GEDmatch DNA of a Black Death victim from London (East Smithfield cemetery), who died in 1348 AD. But in most calculators he doesn't look like someone typically British (maybe immigrant from continental Europe, or someone of mixed ancestry). Only in Dodecad K12b he looks British.

Here are all of my aDNA uploads (so far). The guy from Denmark (RISE276) was also an "outlier" compared to other ancient Scandinavians (RISE174, RISE94, RISE61, RISE97, RISE98 and RISE71):

http://i.imgur.com/AkuVTwO.png

[LoLeL]

Yeah, dominant Germanic + other influences (Celtic, Romance and etc)

[Peterski]

Ancient Scandinavian samples on GEDmatch:

Gedmatch kit / Sample / Dating / Country

F999956 / RISE94 / 2621-2472 BC / Sweden
M130094 / RISE61 / 2650-2300 BC / Denmark
M671253 / RISE71 / 2196-2023 BC / Denmark
F999941 / RISE98 / 2275-2032 BC / Sweden
F999945 / RISE97 / 2025-1885 BC / Sweden
Z430317 / RISE276 / 794-547 BC / Denmark
F999943 / RISE174 / 427-611 AD / Sweden

Ancient Celtic British samples on GEDmatch:

M232268 / Rathlin-1 / 2026–1885 BC / Ireland
T232503 / Hinxton-1 / 160 BC - 26 AD / Britain
F999925 / Hinxton-4 / 170 BC - 80 AD / Britain

There are also 11 samples of Unetice culture.