Do "pure Anglo-Saxons" still exist in modern England? (challenge)

[Peterski]

Englishmen,

I challenge you to post your GEDmatch results and see if any of you is similar to Hinxton-2:

Anglo-Saxon sample Hinxton-2 (lived ca. years 631-776 AD) in puntDNAL K15:

Kit number: F999921

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 4.3
2 Norwegian 4.41
(...)
7 English 7.24
8 Irish 7.93
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.1% Swedish + 1.9% Paniya @ 3.91
2 98.2% Swedish + 1.8% Malayan @ 3.95
3 98.3% Swedish + 1.7% North_Kannadi @ 4.03
4 98.4% Swedish + 1.6% Sakilli @ 4.05
5 95.3% Swedish + 4.7% Basque @ 4.06
6 85.1% Polish + 14.9% Basque @ 4.08
7 90.2% Norwegian + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 4.11
8 98.5% Swedish + 1.5% Uttar_Pradesh_SC @ 4.12
9 56.6% Swedish + 43.4% Norwegian @ 4.13
10 98.6% Swedish + 1.4% Tamil_Nadu_SC @ 4.14
11 65.6% Lithuanian + 34.4% Basque @ 4.15
12 77.6% Norwegian + 22.4% Polish @ 4.18
13 98.7% Swedish + 1.3% Kanjar @ 4.18
14 98.8% Swedish + 1.2% Tharus @ 4.18
15 98.2% Swedish + 1.8% Sardinian @ 4.19
16 80.9% Swedish + 19.1% Scottish @ 4.19
17 98.9% Swedish + 1.1% Bengali @ 4.21
18 89.8% Norwegian + 10.2% Belarusian @ 4.21
19 99.4% Swedish + 0.6% San @ 4.21
20 91.4% Norwegian + 8.6% Finnish @ 4.21

As you can see Early* Anglo-Saxons were nothing like modern English people.

They resembled Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Northern Dutch people.

*By "Early" I mean "unmixed" (after immigration, before mixing with locals).

[Norb]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 54.44
2 Mediterranean 32.87
3 Caucasian 9.31
4 SW_Asian 2.34
5 S_Indian 0.49
6 S_African 0.47
7 Beringian 0.09


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Utahn_White 1.37
2 South_German 2.23
3 English 3.08
4 Orcadian 4.07
5 Irish 4.11
6 Scottish 4.74
7 French 5.02
8 North_German 6.04
9 Austrian 6.1
10 Hungarian 6.7
11 Slovenian 6.71
12 Norwegian 6.94
13 Croatian 6.98
14 Serbian 8.32
15 Swedish 9.42
16 Polish 12.91
17 Bosnian 13.07
18 Macedonian 13.37
19 Romanian 14.08
20 Bulgarian 14.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.2% Irish + 15.8% Basque @ 0.86
2 93.7% English + 6.3% Sardinian @ 1.08
3 86.5% Utahn_White + 13.5% Scottish @ 1.17
4 63.1% English + 36.9% French @ 1.17
5 80.7% Utahn_White + 19.3% English @ 1.19
6 51.5% Scottish + 48.5% French @ 1.2
7 94.4% Utahn_White + 5.6% Swedish @ 1.25
8 92.5% Utahn_White + 7.5% Norwegian @ 1.25
9 84.9% English + 15.1% Spaniard @ 1.26
10 88.1% Utahn_White + 11.9% Orcadian @ 1.27
11 96.2% Utahn_White + 3.8% Polish @ 1.27
12 97.9% Utahn_White + 2.1% Lithuanian @ 1.28
13 97.9% Utahn_White + 2.1% Belarusian @ 1.31
14 93.7% Utahn_White + 6.3% North_German @ 1.31
15 98.4% Utahn_White + 1.6% Finnish @ 1.32
16 87% English + 13% Portuguese @ 1.32
17 98.3% Utahn_White + 1.7% Mordovian @ 1.33
18 98.5% Utahn_White + 1.5% Russian @ 1.33
19 98.6% Utahn_White + 1.4% Karelian @ 1.34
20 94.1% Utahn_White + 5.9% Irish @ 1.35

[StonyArabia]

Anglo-Saxons in England mixed with the Celto-Meds present there, so they have changed a little bit. The original Anglo-Saxons were much closer to the Dutch and West Germans than anyone else, and of course Scandos.

[Grace O'Malley]

Englishmen,

I challenge you to post your GEDmatch results and see if any of you is similar to Hinxton-2:

Anglo-Saxon sample Hinxton-2 (lived ca. years 631-776 AD) in puntDNAL K15:

Kit number: F999921

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 4.3
2 Norwegian 4.41
(...)
7 English 7.24
8 Irish 7.93
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.1% Swedish + 1.9% Paniya @ 3.91
2 98.2% Swedish + 1.8% Malayan @ 3.95
3 98.3% Swedish + 1.7% North_Kannadi @ 4.03
4 98.4% Swedish + 1.6% Sakilli @ 4.05
5 95.3% Swedish + 4.7% Basque @ 4.06
6 85.1% Polish + 14.9% Basque @ 4.08
7 90.2% Norwegian + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 4.11
8 98.5% Swedish + 1.5% Uttar_Pradesh_SC @ 4.12
9 56.6% Swedish + 43.4% Norwegian @ 4.13
10 98.6% Swedish + 1.4% Tamil_Nadu_SC @ 4.14
11 65.6% Lithuanian + 34.4% Basque @ 4.15
12 77.6% Norwegian + 22.4% Polish @ 4.18
13 98.7% Swedish + 1.3% Kanjar @ 4.18
14 98.8% Swedish + 1.2% Tharus @ 4.18
15 98.2% Swedish + 1.8% Sardinian @ 4.19
16 80.9% Swedish + 19.1% Scottish @ 4.19
17 98.9% Swedish + 1.1% Bengali @ 4.21
18 89.8% Norwegian + 10.2% Belarusian @ 4.21
19 99.4% Swedish + 0.6% San @ 4.21
20 91.4% Norwegian + 8.6% Finnish @ 4.21

As you can see Early* Anglo-Saxons were nothing like modern English people.

They resembled Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Northern Dutch people.

*By "Early" I mean "unmixed" (after immigration, before mixing with locals).

Can I post mine? Not English but Irish. Oddly I'm still closer to Norwegian than Hinxton 2 and closer to the North German on this calc. All populations have changed but it also depends what calculator you use. My observations is that Northwestern Euros (& I include the Scandinavians in that) are quite close. The Anglo-Saxons came from around North German close to Denmark so not too surprising that they would get some of those populations first but all populations have changed a bit and they mixed with Celts. Anyway you know that there is some southern shift in the South East English and they are investigating the reasons for this. I think most English people know they aren't just Anglo-Saxons anyway.

I'm closer to English than Norb on this calc as well.

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 56.86
2 Mediterranean 29.35
3 Caucasian 9.46
4 SW_Asian 1.88
5 Amerindian 0.97
6 S_Indian 0.75
7 Siberian 0.27
8 Beringian 0.24
9 Oceanian 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Orcadian 1.37
2 Irish 1.59
3 English 1.64
4 Scottish 2.11
5 North_German 2.23
6 Austrian 3.69
7 Norwegian 3.7
8 Slovenian 3.81
9 Utahn_White 4.39
10 Hungarian 4.43
11 South_German 5.1
12 Croatian 5.77
13 Swedish 5.95
14 French 8.48
15 Polish 9.28
16 Serbian 9.62
17 Bosnian 14.38
18 Macedonian 15.54
19 Belarusian 15.87
20 Russian 15.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.7% Scottish + 25.3% Croatian @ 0.86
2 96.4% Scottish + 3.6% Kumyk @ 0.88
3 96.8% Scottish + 3.2% Iranian @ 0.89
4 96.1% Scottish + 3.9% Chechen @ 0.89
5 96.4% Scottish + 3.6% Balkar @ 0.91
6 80.6% North_German + 19.4% French @ 0.91
7 96.4% Scottish + 3.6% Lezgin @ 0.92
8 96.6% Scottish + 3.4% North_Ossetian @ 0.93
9 96.8% Scottish + 3.2% Azerbaijani @ 0.94
10 96.7% Scottish + 3.3% Turk_Istanbul @ 0.95
11 68% North_German + 32% Utahn_White @ 0.95
12 96.6% Scottish + 3.4% Kurdish @ 0.96
13 96.3% Scottish + 3.7% Tadjik @ 0.96
14 96.1% Scottish + 3.9% Nogai @ 0.97
15 83.6% Scottish + 16.4% Serbian @ 0.97
16 88.4% Scottish + 11.6% Bosnian @ 0.98
17 96.5% Scottish + 3.5% Turkmen @ 0.99
18 97.2% Scottish + 2.8% Abkhasian @ 1.02
19 96.9% Scottish + 3.1% Armenian @ 1.03
20 71.7% North_German + 28.3% South_German @ 1.03

[Catkin]

My dad’s ancestry is mostly from south-east England, and he scores Irish on this:

1 NE_European 56.21
2 Mediterranean 28.79
3 Caucasian 10.09
4 SW_Asian 2.56
5 S_Indian 1.43
6 Siberian 0.48
7 W_African 0.19
8 S_African 0.13
9 Beringian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Irish 1.14
2 Orcadian 1.81
3 English 2.3
4 Austrian 2.62
5 Slovenian 2.78
6 North_German 2.82
7 Scottish 3.13
8 Hungarian 3.37
9 Utahn_White 4.31
10 Norwegian 4.4
11 Croatian 4.71
12 South_German 4.95
13 Swedish 6.42
14 French 8.41
15 Serbian 8.85
16 Polish 9.54
17 Bosnian 13.43
18 Macedonian 14.81
19 Russian 16
20 Belarusian 16.02

[frankhammer]

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 56.42
2 Mediterranean 30.03
3 Caucasian 9.34
4 SW_Asian 1.57
5 Horn_Of_Africa 0.99
6 Siberian 0.89
7 S_Indian 0.57
8 Amerindian 0.18
9 S_African 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 English 1.45
2 Orcadian 1.66
3 Irish 1.75
4 Scottish 2.49
5 North_German 2.89
6 Utahn_White 3.73
7 Norwegian 4.18
8 Austrian 4.25
9 Slovenian 4.31
10 South_German 4.45
11 Hungarian 4.88
12 Croatian 6.07
13 Swedish 6.45
14 French 7.85
15 Serbian 9.38
16 Polish 9.94
17 Bosnian 14.19
18 Macedonian 15.13
19 Romanian 16.24
20 Russian 16.43

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57% North_German + 43% Utahn_White @ 1.02
2 88.8% North_German + 11.2% Portuguese @ 1.03
3 94.5% North_German + 5.5% Sardinian @ 1.05
4 74.4% North_German + 25.6% French @ 1.08
5 96.7% English + 3.3% Chuvash @ 1.1
6 82.9% Utahn_White + 17.1% Karelian @ 1.1
7 87.6% North_German + 12.4% Spaniard @ 1.11
8 61.8% North_German + 38.2% South_German @ 1.12
9 97.4% English + 2.6% Bashkir @ 1.12
10 98.6% English + 1.4% Selkup @ 1.13
11 99.2% English + 0.8% Nganassan @ 1.15
12 82.2% Utahn_White + 17.8% Russian @ 1.16
13 99% English + 1% Dolgan @ 1.17
14 64.2% Utahn_White + 35.8% Swedish @ 1.17
15 83.8% Utahn_White + 16.2% Finnish @ 1.19
16 60.9% English + 39.1% Irish @ 1.2
17 98.3% English + 1.7% Nogai @ 1.22
18 98.5% English + 1.5% Uzbek @ 1.22
19 87.5% Scottish + 12.5% Macedonian @ 1.24
20 59.7% South_German + 40.3% Swedish @ 1.24

[Grace O'Malley]

Anglo-Saxons in England mixed with the Celto-Meds present there, so they have changed a little bit. The original Anglo-Saxons were much closer to the Dutch and West Germans than anyone else, and of course Scandos.

The Celts were just as northern shifted.

We consistently obtained significantly positive f4 statistics, implying that both the modern Celtic samples and the ancient Saxon samples have more Steppe ancestry than the modern Anglo-Saxon samples from southern and eastern England. This indicates that southern and eastern England are not exclusively a genetic mix of Celts and Saxons, which each have more Steppe ancestry. There are a variety of possible explanations, but one is that the present genetic structure of Britain, although subtle, is quite old and that southern England in Roman times already had less Steppe ancestry than Wales and Scotland.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5097941/

[SvartVarg]

Person A
# Population Percent
1 NE_European 62.02
2 Mediterranean 29.1
3 Caucasian 7.53
4 SW_Asian 1.05
5 Amerindian 0.21
6 Beringian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Norwegian 2.89
2 Swedish 2.95
3 Scottish 3.48
4 North_German 3.81
5 Orcadian 4.86
6 English 5.25
7 Irish 5.79
8 Polish 6.06
9 Slovenian 7.14
10 Austrian 7.17
11 Hungarian 8.43
12 Utahn_White 8.65
13 South_German 9.5
14 Croatian 10.23
15 French 12.76
16 Belarusian 12.82
17 Russian 13.65
18 Mordovian 14.01
19 Karelian 14.5
20 Serbian 14.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.8% Scottish + 15.2% Lithuanian @ 2.02
2 57.3% Swedish + 42.7% Scottish @ 2.11
3 93.2% Swedish + 6.8% Basque @ 2.13
4 67.5% Scottish + 32.5% Polish @ 2.16
5 83.2% Polish + 16.8% Basque @ 2.25
6 83% Scottish + 17% Belarusian @ 2.33
7 72.9% Swedish + 27.1% English @ 2.39
8 96.8% Swedish + 3.2% Sardinian @ 2.45
9 83.9% Swedish + 16.1% Utahn_White @ 2.48
10 89% Swedish + 11% French @ 2.52
11 93.9% Swedish + 6.1% Spaniard @ 2.53
12 73.8% Swedish + 26.2% Orcadian @ 2.56
13 94.7% Swedish + 5.3% Portuguese @ 2.56
14 86.3% Swedish + 13.7% South_German @ 2.57
15 52.4% Norwegian + 47.6% Swedish @ 2.58
16 79.8% Swedish + 20.2% Irish @ 2.65
17 87.2% Scottish + 12.8% Finnish @ 2.67
18 68.8% Swedish + 31.2% North_German @ 2.69
19 77.7% English + 22.3% Lithuanian @ 2.71
20 95.7% Swedish + 4.3% Italian @ 2.71




Person B
# Population Percent
1 NE_European 59.33
2 Mediterranean 30.63
3 Caucasian 4.51
4 SW_Asian 2.31
5 Beringian 1.2
6 Horn_Of_Africa 0.65
7 Omo_River 0.48
8 S_Indian 0.28
9 Oceanian 0.28
10 Siberian 0.14
11 Wht_Nile_River 0.13
12 S_African 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Norwegian 3.55
2 Scottish 3.82
3 Orcadian 4.58
4 English 4.63
5 North_German 5.03
6 Swedish 5.4
7 Irish 6.24
8 Utahn_White 7.38
9 Austrian 7.41
10 Slovenian 7.98
11 South_German 8.01
12 Polish 8.64
13 Hungarian 8.78
14 Croatian 10.43
15 French 10.87
16 Serbian 14
17 Belarusian 15.04
18 Russian 15.55
19 Mordovian 15.6
20 Karelian 16.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.7% Belarusian + 37.3% Basque @ 1.54
2 57.9% Lithuanian + 42.1% Basque @ 1.74
3 75% Polish + 25% Basque @ 2.08
4 83.8% Swedish + 16.2% Basque @ 2.39
5 91.4% Norwegian + 8.6% Basque @ 2.66
6 91.3% Swedish + 8.7% Sardinian @ 2.9
7 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Sardinian @ 2.98
8 91.9% Norwegian + 8.1% Spaniard @ 3.07
9 82.1% Swedish + 17.9% Spaniard @ 3.1
10 85.5% Polish + 14.5% Sardinian @ 3.12
11 72.5% Lithuanian + 27.5% Sardinian @ 3.16
12 93.7% Norwegian + 6.3% Portuguese @ 3.19
13 98.2% Norwegian + 1.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.37
14 90.4% Norwegian + 9.6% French @ 3.38
15 84.7% Swedish + 15.3% Portuguese @ 3.39
16 98.3% Norwegian + 1.7% Moroccan @ 3.4
17 96.5% Norwegian + 3.5% Brazilian @ 3.41
18 65.6% Norwegian + 34.4% Scottish @ 3.44
19 78.4% Norwegian + 21.6% English @ 3.45
20 88.6% Norwegian + 11.4% Utahn_White @ 3.45


The 1st one is a close friend & his kit is private; his ancestry is extremely stationary & very old.
The 2nd one is a former classmate kept in contact with; late 1500s/early 1600s stationary except for a 1800s foreign ancestor.

From completely different areas in the UK. Like myself/dad from thoroughly researched families (more than just copying & pasting from ancestry.com, geni, etc.) and the only reason for DNA testing was haplogroup interest; ethnicity & questionable ancestry didn't even factor. And that's the thing. People like this - from the older, (and/or affluent) families, or from families who haven't moved for a very long time - are less likely to genetic test than those whose ancestry is mobile, uncertain/questionable, or even unknown.

[Sikeliot]

If you are to find it, you'd probably find it in East Anglia.

[Albannach]

Englishmen,

I challenge you to post your GEDmatch results and see if any of you is similar to Hinxton-2:

Anglo-Saxon sample Hinxton-2 (lived ca. years 631-776 AD) in puntDNAL K15:

Kit number: F999921

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 4.3
2 Norwegian 4.41
(...)
7 English 7.24
8 Irish 7.93
(...)

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.1% Swedish + 1.9% Paniya @ 3.91
2 98.2% Swedish + 1.8% Malayan @ 3.95
3 98.3% Swedish + 1.7% North_Kannadi @ 4.03
4 98.4% Swedish + 1.6% Sakilli @ 4.05
5 95.3% Swedish + 4.7% Basque @ 4.06
6 85.1% Polish + 14.9% Basque @ 4.08
7 90.2% Norwegian + 9.8% Lithuanian @ 4.11
8 98.5% Swedish + 1.5% Uttar_Pradesh_SC @ 4.12
9 56.6% Swedish + 43.4% Norwegian @ 4.13
10 98.6% Swedish + 1.4% Tamil_Nadu_SC @ 4.14
11 65.6% Lithuanian + 34.4% Basque @ 4.15
12 77.6% Norwegian + 22.4% Polish @ 4.18
13 98.7% Swedish + 1.3% Kanjar @ 4.18
14 98.8% Swedish + 1.2% Tharus @ 4.18
15 98.2% Swedish + 1.8% Sardinian @ 4.19
16 80.9% Swedish + 19.1% Scottish @ 4.19
17 98.9% Swedish + 1.1% Bengali @ 4.21
18 89.8% Norwegian + 10.2% Belarusian @ 4.21
19 99.4% Swedish + 0.6% San @ 4.21
20 91.4% Norwegian + 8.6% Finnish @ 4.21

As you can see Early* Anglo-Saxons were nothing like modern English people.

They resembled Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Northern Dutch people.

*By "Early" I mean "unmixed" (after immigration, before mixing with locals).

Is Hinxton-2 full Anglo-Saxon? because it's MDLP K16 results seem closer to insular Celtic populations.

# Population Percent
1 Neolithic 27.62
2 Steppe 26.35
3 NorthEastEuropean 26.27
4 Caucasian 17.84
5 Subsaharian 0.79
6 Oceanic 0.54
7 SouthEastAsian 0.36
8 Amerindian 0.22
9 Arctic 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 3.13
2 Irish (Connacht) 3.28
3 Irish (Munster) 3.54
4 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.58
5 English (Cornwall) 3.6
6 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 3.73
7 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.75
8 Scottish (Highlands) 3.78
9 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.06
10 Scottish (Grampian) 4.14
11 Irish (Ulster) 4.14
12 English (England) 4.2
13 English (Kent) 4.36
14 Scottish (Fife) 4.36
15 Irish (Leinster) 4.36
16 Dutch (Netherlands) 4.85
17 French (WestFrance) 4.92
18 Scottish (Borders) 5.19
19 Norwegian (Norwegia) 5.38
20 Icelandic (Iceland) 5.72

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.6% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 5.4% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.08
2 95.7% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 4.3% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.12
3 94.4% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 5.6% Turk (Trabzon) @ 2.14
4 90.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 9.1% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 2.16
5 91% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 9% Albanian (Albania) @ 2.17
6 90.4% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 9.6% Italian (Tuscany) @ 2.18
7 87.6% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 12.4% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 2.19
8 96% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 4% Georgian (Tbilisi) @ 2.19
9 90% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 10% Kosovar (Kosovo) @ 2.19
10 94.1% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 5.9% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.2
11 91.2% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 8.8% Greek (Greece) @ 2.21
12 88.5% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 11.5% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.23
13 93.7% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 6.3% Adygei (Adygea) @ 2.25
14 95.7% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 4.3% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 2.25
15 88.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 11.1% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 2.26
16 94.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 5.8% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 2.27
17 93.6% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 6.4% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 2.28
18 95.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 4.1% Armenian (Armenia) @ 2.28
19 94.1% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 5.9% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 2.28
20 86.9% Scottish (Argyll_bute) + 13.1% Montenegrian (Montenegro) @ 2.29