Were our ancestors that perverted

[Breathe]

In my university, we are required to take artistic expression class. When we were learning about ancient/pre-abrahamic religions art.... it seemed like the artwork around the world included SEX SEX SEX! And not just normal sex, there were sculptures of people having orgies, pedophilia, bestiality and all kinds of stuff lol. This was everywhere including Ancient Greece, Middle East, India, China, Rome etc.

My professor told me after the spread of Christianity and Islam, people started becoming somewhat prudish and shameful towards these acts. Were our ancestors really that perverted?

[Kriptc06]

In my university, we are required to take artistic expression class. When we were learning about ancient/pre-abrahamic religions art.... it seemed like the artwork around the world included SEX SEX SEX! And not just normal sex, there were sculptures of people having orgies, pedophilia, bestiality and all kinds of stuff lol. This was everywhere including Ancient Greece, Middle East, India, China, Rome etc.

My professor told me after the spread of Christianity and Islam, people started becoming somewhat prudish and shameful towards these acts. Were our ancestors really that perverted?

yes,

hes right

[Breathe]

I'm shocked, really. I thought liberalism was a new concept. It seems like to me that people before Abrahamic religions were more perverted then. I mean come on, how can anybody think BESTIALITY, PEDOPHILIA, AND ORGIES are normal?

Filth.

[Odin]

[Bosniensis]

In my university, we are required to take artistic expression class. When we were learning about ancient/pre-abrahamic religions art.... it seemed like the artwork around the world included SEX SEX SEX! And not just normal sex, there were sculptures of people having orgies, pedophilia, bestiality and all kinds of stuff lol. This was everywhere including Ancient Greece, Middle East, India, China, Rome etc.

My professor told me after the spread of Christianity and Islam, people started becoming somewhat prudish and shameful towards these acts. Were our ancestors really that perverted?

Greeks were apparently experts in bestiality

[spik]

Not more ‘perverted’ than at any other time in history.

[sean]

When we were learning about ancient/pre-abrahamic religions art.... it seemed like the artwork around the world included SEX SEX SEX! And not just normal sex, there were sculptures of people having orgies, pedophilia, bestiality and all kinds of stuff lol. This was everywhere including Ancient Greece, Middle East, India, China, Rome etc. My professor told me after the spread of Christianity and Islam, people started becoming somewhat prudish and shameful towards these acts. Were our ancestors really that perverted?

Not really. There is a lot of historical revisionist bullshit about fags and pedos on both sides. For example, out of the 80,000 Greek vases found, only 30 of them have overtly homosexual art.

It is true that there was male pederasty in ancient Greece, but it was most often between similar aged teens. Men in Sparta didn't get married until they were 25, but brides began at 15. Athenians had laws explicitly forbiding older men being with teens. Homosexuality was more of a tolerated phase than a 'lifestyle' and everyone was expected to have normal families. You were expected to grow out of it. Further, sodomy was a violation that you only committed upon slaves and prisoners of war. Homosexuals were also mocked in plays. The Greeks also called homosexuals "Kinaidos" meaning causer of shame/curse of Aidos.

The Romans have a reputation for being perverts, and all that we think we know about the Romans comes from early Christian writers who sought to discredit the ancient Roman gods and exaggerated everything massively. Brothels existed at the time, but the prostitutes and their children were outcasts and men visited them in secret. Much of what we know of Roman Empire is probably horseshit, if even one tenth of what we read is true.

Historical Christian writers in Japan very often wrote about how depraved the Japanese were, they often did not separate the sexes in bathhouses and people (obviously) had sex in them all the time (this is even depicted in art), the feudal lords and other men of authority fucked their male subordinates regularly, there was no concept of chastity before marriage (this one still persist today).

The Etruscans loved sex so much that even the Greeks and Romans were embarrassed: surviving frescos depict sodomy, copulation, flagellation and good old-fashioned pederasty all being enjoyed out in the open. Early stuff like Gilgamesh is often so anti-women that they reject them altogether in favour of homosexuality.

In the Middle Ages, nothing changed, and the literature you see from the Middle Ages that mentions sex typically mentions it either as part of a moralistic tale where the promiscuous get what's coming to them or as part of humorous plays ridiculing the promiscuous. The same is true in the Early Modern Era, for example in the work of Shakespeare (who made a lot of references to promiscuity and sex, but typically to ridicule a character or get the public to feel hostile towards that character).

[Zeno]

Not really. There is a lot of historical revisionist bullshit about fags and pedos on both sides. For example, out of the 80,000 Greek vases found, only 30 of them have overtly homosexual art.

It is true that there was male pederasty in ancient Greece, but it was most often between similar aged teens. Men in Sparta didn't get married until they were 25, but brides began at 15. Athenians had laws explicitly forbiding older men being with teens. Homosexuality was more of a tolerated phase than a 'lifestyle' and everyone was expected to have normal families. You were expected to grow out of it. Further, sodomy was a violation that you only committed upon slaves and prisoners of war. Homosexuals were also mocked in plays. The Greeks also called homosexuals "Kinaidos" meaning causer of shame/curse of Aidos.

The Romans have a reputation for being perverts, and all that we think we know about the Romans comes from early Christian writers who sought to discredit the ancient Roman gods and exaggerated everything massively. Brothels existed at the time, but the prostitutes and their children were outcasts and men visited them in secret. Much of what we know of Roman Empire is probably horseshit, if even one tenth of what we read is true.

Historical Christian writers in Japan very often wrote about how depraved the Japanese were, they often did not separate the sexes in bathhouses and people (obviously) had sex in them all the time (this is even depicted in art), the feudal lords and other men of authority fucked their male subordinates regularly, there was no concept of chastity before marriage (this one still persist today).

The Etruscans loved sex so much that even the Greeks and Romans were embarrassed: surviving frescos depict sodomy, copulation, flagellation and good old-fashioned pederasty all being enjoyed out in the open. Early stuff like Gilgamesh is often so anti-women that they reject them altogether in favour of homosexuality.

In the Middle Ages, nothing changed, and the literature you see from the Middle Ages that mentions sex typically mentions it either as part of a moralistic tale where the promiscuous get what's coming to them or as part of humorous plays ridiculing the promiscuous. The same is true in the Early Modern Era, for example in the work of Shakespeare (who made a lot of references to promiscuity and sex, but typically to ridicule a character or get the public to feel hostile towards that character).

Yeah, exactly, homosexuality is vastly overrated for ancient Greece. We were taught this at school very laboriously. And we were taught some classical works referring to the laws you mentioned.

In ancient Greece, and in particular, Athens, the most "liberal", the only thing allowed close to pederasty was the διαμηρίζειν, or simply speaking, intercrural sex, which isn't even sex, but merely thigh masturbation, so to speak. And even that was punishable.

For Sparta, Macedonia and the rest of the Greek world, such acts were punishable to death even.

[PaleoEuropean]

Perversion implies that they followed the same set of moralities, dogma and intention. Ancient people weren't all perverted, there were moral movements, figures and periods all over the ancient world. Stoicism etc. Stoicism in the west is really the metric and origin of our modern sensibilities not Christianity. In fact Western Christianity borrows a lot from Stocisim imo, maybe taking things too far like clergy not being able to marry or having to abstain.

[PaleoEuropean]

Yeah, exactly, homosexuality is vastly overrated for ancient Greece. We were taught this at school very laboriously. And we were taught some classical works referring to the laws you mentioned.

In ancient Greece, and in particular, Athens, the most "liberal", the only thing allowed close to pederasty was the διαμηρίζειν, or simply speaking, intercrural sex, which isn't even sex, but merely thigh masturbation, so to speak. And even that was punishable.

For Sparta, Macedonia and the rest of the Greek world, such acts were punishable to death even.

Even if it's true who really cares though, it's not like the Ancient Greeks, Celts etc were Christians, a lot of it from my understanding (mainly Sparta) was due to sexual segregation. Spartan males largely did not live at home or ever get to see their wives. The Athenians were much more family oriented and thus it was not as common with the Athenians. I think it's kinda pointless to apply our views on anything to ancient people. They were and now we are. There are much more pressing issues in the world worthy of discussion.