Genetic plot with Greeks: It is clear which are Slavicized, and which plot near Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

One set is islanders which plot with mainland south Italians. The other ones drifting toward Balkan and Poland, are mainland.




http://www.unz.com/gnxp/greeks-with-...y-and-without/

[Catholic Riffs]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia

[Sikeliot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia

Ok? The point is that there are Greeks who have significant NE European influence, and then those (mostly the Aegean islands) who are similar to Sicily.

[Sikeliot]

You can see here that islanders are more or less like southern Italians, while mainlanders are Slavicized or have more NE Euro.

[GoneWithTheWind]

Shhhhh Greeks are pure

[Dianatomia]

Ok? The point is that there are Greeks who have significant NE European influence, and then those (mostly the Aegean islands) who are similar to Sicily.

Once again. There is no onus for all modern Greeks to be entirely identical, just as there is no onus for all Ancient Greeks to be entirely identical. If you can show us that all ancient Greeks where identical, and there was zero discrepancy between mainland Greeks and some islanders or South Italians/Sicilians, then maybe we can start discussing any form of Sclavinization of some Greeks based on that argument.

Greece lies in the Balkans, ancient Greeks lived (evolved) in the Balkans. It would be illogical to start with if we would assume that Ancient Greeks on an autosomal scale, did not (even slightly) deviate towards the Balkans compared to native Sicilians (Sikeliots and Phoenicians) or even Cretans (Minoans). Even if many Ancient Greeks migrated to Sicily. Then a mix of these peoples (Greeks, Sikeliots, Phoenicians) would as a rule be further from the Balkans than the Ancient Greeks who are in fact from the Balkans. So do the math. Greeks are exactly where they should be on those scales. Very close to Sicilians and South Italians, but deviate a little bit towards the Balkans.

And one more thing, Greeks are clustering far from Poles, but they are clustering closer to Poles than Sicilians do. Who says that Ancient Greeks did not cluster closer to Poles than Ancient Sicilians (Sikeliots and Phoenicians) did? After all, the IE tribes such as Proto-Hellenes, Dorians who entered the Balkan peninsula came from Eastern Europe to start with.

I am not arguing that Greeks are pure ancient Greeks ofcourse, but your maps prove the continuity of the Greeks rather than the opposite. A person who argues against the continuity of the Greeks would be mind boggled to argue why Greeks are so close to South Italians in the first place. Why are Macedonian Greeks so relatively close to that isolated island 800 km due south called Crete which was inhabited by non-Greek Minoans in the first place? Why are mainland Greeks so close, or even overlap to Ioanian (Western Anatolia) Greeks?

[Sikeliot]

If you look at the plot, when compared to the more outlying southern Italians, the more outlying Greeks are nearly halfway to Poland. So for some Greeks, the northeastern shift, whether Slavic or not, is substantial.

[Dianatomia]

If you look at the plot, when compared to the more outlying southern Italians, the more outlying Greeks are nearly halfway to Poland. So for some Greeks, the northeastern shift, whether Slavic or not, is substantial.

It is, but the Southern Italian outlyers are not Ancient Greek prime examples obviously. It says nothing more than the Cypriot outlyers compared to Greek outliers. What about the Balkan outliers? Using the same line of thought, some Balkan outliers would be similar to Paleo-Balkanians right?

Let's forget about the modern Greeks for a moment. And let's ask ourselves where we should place the Ancient Greeks on this map. What would seam logical to you? That they are exactly identical to Cretans? That they should completely overlap with Southern Italians? Where should they be compared to their Balkan neighbors? I just wonder, where would you place them and why?

[Sikeliot]

It is, but the Southern Italian outlyers are not Ancient Greek prime examples obviously. It says nothing more than the Cypriot outlyers compared to Greek outliers. What about the Balkan outliers? Using the same line of thought, some Balkan outliers would be similar to Paleo-Balkanians right?

Let's forget about the modern Greeks for a moment. And let's ask ourselves where we should place the Ancient Greeks on this map. What would seam logical to you? That they are exactly identical to Cretans? That they should completely overlap with Southern Italians? Where should they be compared to their Balkan neighbors? I just wonder, where would you place them and why?

IMO they would be more Northern shifted than southern Italians, but less so than most modern Greeks.

[Dianatomia]

IMO they would be more Northern shifted than southern Italians, but less so than most modern Greeks.

So I take it somewhere between Southern Italy and Balkan, but less towards Balkan. Right?

But then I ask myself should the outliers of the Sclavinized paleo-Balkanians, the ones with the least Slavic ancestry, not be close to the Ancient Greeks? At least to the Ancient Greek outliers? The Ancient Macedonians for example, or the Ancient Epirots?