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Thread: Seljuk-Georgian war the Didgori battle 1121

  1. #21
    Senior Member klarji's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    Happy now? We admit?
    Very happy
    Dont see in the theme hysterical Persians - f.cking Greeks how 1k Greeks could defeat 1 million Persians?
    Gaugamela was won by Greeks because God in Flesh, who failed to save his own skin from some Jews and Romans despite being God, Third of the Three inside the Three in One, having 2 natures in merged One, granted victory ... Greeks were never warriors but we Persians were
    Allahu Akbar
    Akbar Allah

  2. #22
    Senior Member klarji's Avatar
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    okey
    lets continue our theme
    Georgians celebrate "Aragveloba" - the celebration dedicated to the 300 Aragvelians dead in the Krtsanisi battle




    Last edited by klarji; 10-07-2018 at 03:31 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    Kipchaks saved Georgia. Ilghazi attacked Georgia with 30k Turkish warriors, he had brought his army all way from Aleppo.
    He faced the Georgian army of 20k + 40k Kipchak mercenaries. They easily repelled the attack.

    Kipchaks were people who would even fight their own father for money, that's the sad part of the story that Turks (Turcomans) were stopped by some other Turkic people in Didgori. Had he succeeded, Turks would go unchallenged until Abkhazia.

    I am a little pissed that the career of a man like Ilghazi, who served as master and Governor of Jerusalem, who then became Bey of his state in Mardin, expanding to Aleppo. Wipping out Norman army at famous Ager Sanguinis battle.
    He should have won at Didgori. Anyway, life story of Ilghazi is like man of first class, so much experience and ventures.

    For what they are and how they act, working for gold, Kipchaks ultimately lost anything they had. They went extinct, were it not for Golden Horde Mongols adopting their language as lingua franca.

    No surprise after Queen Tamar, Kipchaks also sold out their Georgian allies for Mongol golds.
    Mongols turned Georgia into ashes.

    Guy don't be offended, but learn history.
    The Kypchaks did not save Georgia. Another fairy tale invented not so long ago.

    1- There could not have been 40,000 Kypchaks in Georgia. There could have been no way.
    It is known that before the alliance of Georgians and Polovtsy (1118), the alliance of Slavic principalities under the leadership of Monomakh gathered very large troops and made a campaign in the Kypchak steppe and defeated the Polovtsians there, taking advantage of the unexpected effect.
    And the Kypchaks were so much weakened that they were forced to pump out longer from the borders of Kievan Rus to the southeast, closer to the northern Caucasus.
    It is because of this that there could not be 40 thousand of them. Is 40 thousand for you a weakened Kypchak horde?) Do not talk nonsense.
    There were a maximum of 5 thousand of them in Georgia, probably they made up a personal detachment of David 4 together with Monasp.

    2- The Kypchaks did not play any key role in the war with the Seljuks for David 4.
    Even before the alliance with the Polovtsy (1118), David 4 (David became king in 1089) fought a successful war with the Seljuks for almost 30 years.
    David 4 carried out good military reforms (strengthened the army), centralized power, pacified the feudal lords. This was all before the alliance with the Polovtsy. He already had a strong army crushing the Seljuks. And before the alliance with the Polovtsy, he annexed almost all of eastern Georgia.
    The union was when there was only Tbilisi left to take.

    The first major battle took place in 1104 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy) in Ertsukhi, this is the territory of the present Saingilo, earlier this territory was Georgia, called Hereti.

    And just about this battle with many opponents they write that it is "Fanned with glory, that great victory .."

    The war was with the Sultan and Atabek of Gandza.

    At the same time, Tbilisi and the surrounding lands were ruled by unfaithful Turks.

    After this battle, Kakheti and Hereti - the Eastern part of Georgia, was already firmly annexed to Georgia, before that the local Georgian king ruled there.

    In 1110 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy), he was already actively beginning the liberation of the southern part of Georgia, and it was he who liberated the city of Samshvilde and the nearest fortresses from the Turks, in the same year the Georgian king had already captured Gandza.


    In the same year, according to the chroniclers, the enemy gathered in response 100,000 thousand (I do not believe in numbers, but I am sure there were more Seljuks) and sent them to Georgia, the battle took place in Trialeti.

    David, not collecting all his army, immediately moved on them with a small, but elite army and to smithereens defeated a huge army, unexpectedly attacking, which the Turks did not expect and turned to ravage once again.

    After the liberation of the city of Rustavi.


    In 1116 (before the alliance with the Polovtsians), another battle took place in Tao.

    But he paid dearly, thinking that there we reduced our vigilance. Since all this was in winter and they did not think that from the center of Georgia, across the snow-covered pass, the Georgian king would suddenly come from somewhere, and he came and defeated them.

    in 1117 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy), the Georgians took the Eretian cut of Gishi, then the large fortress of Lore, the fortress of Agarani (1118).

    One of the most important Georgian fortresses was the Lore fortress and we took it.

    In 1117 (before the alliance with the Polovtsy), the Georgians attacked Shirvan and captured a lot of booty, and his son Demeter was already in charge of the campaign, this was his first campaign of this scale.

    And only after so many battles David 4 within two years began the resettlement of the Kipchaks in 1118-1119, when most of Georgia was liberated, except for Tbilisi and Dmanisi, although they were already in fact in the ring.

    He needed hired troops mainly so as not to reduce the number of his soldiers, since it was necessary that someone should work and also so as not to depend anymore on the local feudal lords who opposed the centralization of the country, to pacify them, he led an army of Kipaks, and also to continue the liberation of neighboring territories, in order to secure Georgia.

    3-In the Didgori battle, the main shock and key role was played by the Georgian troops, not the Kipchaks. And the Georgians made up the majority in that army. Not a single source and not a single author of that time wrote that there were more Kypchaks and they were the main striking force.

    The Georgian troops were mainly heavy cavalry and heavy infantry. And they were strong in close combat. Before the alliance with the Polovtsy, David 4 defeated the Seljuks, because he did not fight the Seljuks in the open, where they would have room for maneuver. He lured the Seljuks into a narrow space, where they were forced to go into close combat. In close combat, they were weaker than the Georgian army.

    As I already wrote, the Kypchaks were not the main striking force of David. They were nomads and their troops are light cavalry that loved constant shelling, dodging clashes (close combat) and again endless shelling and shelling again. Even Kievan Rus believed that the Polovtsians were strong due to their mobility and constant shelling, but in close combat they were not so strong and the Kypchaks did not know how to storm the fortresses.

    Therefore, the Kypchaks would be absolutely useless in the Didgor battle. Didgori is a gorge where there is no normal space for maneuver and retreat, the Kypchak interrogator would not be able to fight with his favorite style of eternal retreats and tactics of avoiding close combat. There is no space for this in Didgori gorge. Whether you want it or not, you would have to go into hand-to-hand combat. In close combat, it was the Georgian army that was stronger than the Kypchak and Seljuk ones.

    4-I do not believe in numbers. In my opinion, the Seljuks in that battle were somewhere between 45-50 thousand. These are already huge forces for that time. Georgian sources do not write the number of Seljuks, but write that the Seljuks were like sand in the desert. That said, the Seljuks were much more.

    Georgians 13-15 thousand
    Our allied Kipchaks are 3-5 thousand.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by klarji View Post


    Whats about our weaker Kartvelin brothers from our Zan banch and Georgians mixed with them who are Pontids so I have only one question - are not you going to modern and timely Turkish town Atina and tell local Lazes that they were not warriors but you Turkoids were?

    Lets make such empirical experiment.
    Before that I will make for myself popcorn and will waiting for you face smashing

    Since when did the Zan tribes become weaker than other Georgians? The territories of the Zan tribes were less often captured by enemies than the territories of other Georgians. It was the Zan tribes that many times were the backbone of the army about the liberation of eastern Georgia or the settlement of the deserted regions of Georgia. It was the territories of Western Georgia that the Turks, Iranians and Arabs found it more difficult to occupy, and Western Georgia has been inhabited since ancient times by the Zan tribes.

    The Zans are not pure pontids. The same Mingrelians are basically a mixture of pontida and mtebida. This is the most dominant type in Megrelia. Then, in frequency, pontids and mtebids.
    It was the Mingrelian farmers, according to the conclusions of the anthropologist Pantyukhov, who had one of the largest skeletons (a large and massive skeleton) in the Caucasus region.

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