South American (plus Mexico) countries with the highest frequency of non-Iberian European surnames

[Argentano]

Italian seems very accurate
German: A bit surprised with Paraguay, the german community in Paraguay is very known, but I thought Argentina or Chile had a higher frequency.
I am not expert in British or French influence, but it's probably accurate as well.

Im actually not that surprised because Paraguay was scarcely populated (less immigrants make a bigger impact) and many german brazilians migrated there.

[Argentano]

One comment regarding this analysis. It should be taken into consideration that this rankings are not comparable. For example being first in french surnames doesent really show much as french surnames are rare in latin america. But being first in italian surnames is important because at least 4 south american nations have a lot of "italians".

Its not the same to be the 1st in Italians (40-60 millon in LATAM) than be the 1st in French (2-5 millon in LATAM)

Apart from that the results are pretty reasonable IMO

Top 3 in each

German Surnames Brazil Paraguay Argentina
British Surnames Chile Argentina Uruguay
French Surnames Argentina Uruguay Chile
Italian Surnames Argentina Uruguay Brazil

[Costas]

a lot of the "Polish Argentines" are jews and a lot of the "Russian Argentines" are Volga Germans. IF you check surnames databases (forebears) its pretty evident.

I have met some jews at work who were "polish"

Same in Chile. I know 5 people with Polish surnames, and 3 of them are Jews.

Costas this is an amazing work. I hadnt seen this thread before. I think the charts are pretty accurate and show a very reasonable result.

This surname pages are great because they take into account millons of people. Genetic studies normally have samles of 50-2000 people in heterogeneous countries of 40-200 millons.

Oh thanks dude!

One comment regarding this analysis. It should be taken into consideration that this rankings are not comparable. For example being first in french surnames doesent really show much as french surnames are rare in latin america. But being first in italian surnames is important because at least 4 south american nations have a lot of "italians".

Its not the same to be the 1st in Italians (40-60 millon in LATAM) than be the 1st in French (2-5 millon in LATAM)

Apart from that the results are pretty reasonable IMO

Top 3 in each

German Surnames Brazil Paraguay Argentina
British Surnames Chile Argentina Uruguay
French Surnames Argentina Uruguay Chile
Italian Surnames Argentina Uruguay Brazil

Absolutely. You can see that in the frequency as well. The only surnames in which there are frequencies of under 1:1000 are Italians I think.

Although, to be fair, you could say British, French and German descendants stand out more than Italians.

It's happened to me that I discover a friend's got an Italian surname when I always thought it was simply Iberian... and also Germans and British (not so much French, especially in Chile where French descendants are from the Aquitaine area) are more phenotypically different than Italians/Iberians/Southern French.

I'm surprised about Paraguay by the way, why does it have so many German Brazilians?

Also it's funny that everytime I said "well I think Chile is the country with the highest amount of British descendants" some people (not you) here were like oh my god you're exaggerating so much there's no way, you're so overreacting blah blah blah... and well here you go.

[Peterski]

a lot of the "Polish Argentines" are jews

Most of Polish-Brazilians are Roman Catholics though.

As for Jews - most of Polish Jews did not have surnames until the end of the 18th century.

Later they were given surnames which sound German, Russian or Polish. Some time ago on a genealogical website I found a GEDmatch kit of a guy with German surname, descended from Prussia. I expected some kind of typically East German or Polish results. But to my surprise, he was genetically Ashkenazi Jewish.

I have met some jews at work who were "polish"

Many Jews declared Polish ethnic and/or national identity and/or declared Polish mother tongue.

Here is the data on national identity and mother tongue from Polish censuses of 1921 and 1931:

Percent who answered "Polish" in 1921 and in 1931, for each religious group:

Group - % PL national identity (1921) | % PL mother tongue (1931):

Roman Catholics ------- 98,72% | 98,44%
Protestants ------------- 29,17% | 26,24%
Judaistic people -------- 25,52% | 11,95%
Orthodox people ------- 19,37% | 13,23%
Greek Catholics -------- 11,90% | 14,62%
other & atheists -------- 70,89% | 46,78%

[Peterski]

Same in Chile. I know 5 people with Polish surnames, and 3 of them are Jews.

Are they genetically Jewish?

Most of Polish Jews have actually German or Russian surnames, rather than Polish surnames. This is because they were given surnames in the 19th century, when Poland was partitioned between Prussia, Austria and Russia. Here are GEDmatch results of the guy with a German-sounding surname, whom I mentioned above:

Peter Löwe (GEDmatch F425039 - found on geni.com), obviously he is at least 3/4 Jewish:

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.96
2 Atlantic 15.2
3 West_Med 14.07
4 West_Asian 10.64
5 North_Sea 10.28
6 Red_Sea 9.69
7 Baltic 5.59
8 Northeast_African 2.01
9 Eastern_Euro 1.66
10 Oceanian 0.61
11 Siberian 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 6.17
2 Ashkenazi 6.5
3 Italian_Jewish 6.59
4 West_Sicilian 6.82
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.01
6 South_Italian 7.51
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.94
8 Central_Greek 7.98
9 Algerian_Jewish 8.47
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.35
11 Greek 11.79
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.98
13 Tuscan 12
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.2
15 Cyprian 15.55
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.6
17 Syrian 17.75
18 Bulgarian 18.06
19 North_Italian 18.21
20 Jordanian 19.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.3% North_Italian + 47.7% Palestinian @ 2.49
2 62.8% Tuscan + 37.2% Palestinian @ 2.59
3 73.5% Tuscan + 26.5% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.66
4 79.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.8% North_Dutch @ 2.67
5 78% Tunisian_Jewish + 22% North_German @ 2.7
6 86% Sephardic_Jewish + 14% Swedish @ 2.7
7 75.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 24.1% South_Dutch @ 2.74
8 79.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.1% Swedish @ 2.76
9 75.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 24.2% West_German @ 2.82
10 79.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.1% Norwegian @ 2.83
11 79.3% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.7% Irish @ 2.84
12 79.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.9% Danish @ 2.88
13 78.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 21.6% Southwest_English @ 2.9
14 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% Norwegian @ 2.9
15 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% North_Swedish @ 2.91
16 78.6% Tunisian_Jewish + 21.4% Southeast_English @ 2.92
17 86.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.4% West_Norwegian @ 2.92
18 79.6% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.4% West_Scottish @ 2.93
19 80.6% Tunisian_Jewish + 19.4% West_Norwegian @ 2.94
20 76.7% Tunisian_Jewish + 23.3% East_German @ 2.95

[meninodeengenho]

FRENCH

1. Argentina = 143 points

2. Uruguay = 109 points

3. Chile = 102 points

4. Mexico = 98 points

5. Venezuela = 93 points

6. Brazil = 88 points

7. Peru = 74

8. Paraguay = 51 points

9. Bolivia = 41 points

10. Colombia = 39 points

11. Ecuador = 33 points



Details:




Again the Southern Cone filling up the podium. The biggest surprise is probably Mexico almost reaching the 3rd place. Also Peru is quite high compared to the other rankings.

Mexico received many French immigrants. I have heard that this happened because Porfiro Diaz loved French culture. But I am not sure about it.

I am not surprised with Chile having the highest frequency of British surnames, Argentina having the highest frequency of Italians and French surnames, and Brazil having the highest frequency of German surnames.

[Argentano]

Most of Polish-Brazilians are Roman Catholics though.

As for Jews - most of Polish Jews did not have surnames until the end of the 18th century.

Later they were given surnames which sound German, Russian or Polish. Some time ago on a genealogical website I found a GEDmatch kit of a guy with German surname, descended from Prussia. I expected some kind of typically East German or Polish results. But to my surprise, he was genetically Ashkenazi Jewish.



Many Jews declared Polish ethnic and/or national identity and/or declared Polish mother tongue.

Here is the data on national identity and mother tongue from Polish censuses of 1921 and 1931:

Percent who answered "Polish" in 1921 and in 1931, for each religious group:

Group - % PL nationality (1921) | % PL mother tongue (1931):

Roman Catholics ------- 98,72% | 98,44%
Protestants ------------- 29,17% | 26,24%
Judaistic people -------- 25,52% | 11,95%
Orthodox people ------- 19,37% | 13,23%
Greek Catholics -------- 11,90% | 14,62%
other & atheists -------- 70,89% | 46,78%

Look at this Argentina / Foreign




Italian
http://forebears.io/surnames/rossi
55.858/267.910=20.85%


Jewish
http://forebears.io/surnames/cohen
12.647/137.369=9.20%


Wales
http://forebears.co.uk/surnames/jones#nations2014
5.241/86.331=6.07%

French
http://forebears.io/surnames/durand
4.897/105.645=4.63%


Ireland
http://forebears.io/surnames/murphy#nations2014
2.494/56.815=4.38%

German
http://forebears.io/surnames/schneider
8.541/318.741=2.68%

English
http://forebears.io/surnames/smith#nations2014
7.720/395.915=1.95%

Polish
http://forebears.io/surnames/nowak
747/250.095=0.29%

[Peterski]

Look at this

Polish
http://forebears.io/surnames/nowak
747/250.095=0.29%


Jewish
http://forebears.io/surnames/cohen
12.647/137.369=9.20%

Sure, but Cohens are probably several % of all Jews (if I recall correctly at least 4% of Jews are Cohens?). While Nowaks are only 0.5% of all Poles (there are 200,000 Nowaks in Poland out of 38,500,000 people):

http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/nowak.html

[Argentano]

Sure, but Cohens are probably several % of all Jews (if I recall correctly at least 4% of Jews are Cohens?). While Nowaks are only 0.5% of all Poles (there are 200,000 Nowaks in Poland out of 38,500,000 people):

http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/nowak.html

it doesent matter because i am comapring cohen vs cohen and nowak vs nowak. im not comparing cohen vs nowak

[Costas]

Are they genetically Jewish?

Most of Polish Jews have actually German or Russian surnames, rather than Polish surnames. This is because they were given surnames in the 19th century, when Poland was partitioned between Prussia, Austria and Russia. Here are GEDmatch results of the guy with a German-sounding surname, whom I mentioned above:

Peter Löwe (GEDmatch F425039 - found on geni.com), obviously he is at least 3/4 Jewish:

Eurogenes K15:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.96
2 Atlantic 15.2
3 West_Med 14.07
4 West_Asian 10.64
5 North_Sea 10.28
6 Red_Sea 9.69
7 Baltic 5.59
8 Northeast_African 2.01
9 Eastern_Euro 1.66
10 Oceanian 0.61
11 Siberian 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 6.17
2 Ashkenazi 6.5
3 Italian_Jewish 6.59
4 West_Sicilian 6.82
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.01
6 South_Italian 7.51
7 Italian_Abruzzo 7.94
8 Central_Greek 7.98
9 Algerian_Jewish 8.47
10 Tunisian_Jewish 10.35
11 Greek 11.79
12 Greek_Thessaly 11.98
13 Tuscan 12
14 Libyan_Jewish 12.2
15 Cyprian 15.55
16 Lebanese_Muslim 17.6
17 Syrian 17.75
18 Bulgarian 18.06
19 North_Italian 18.21
20 Jordanian 19.35

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.3% North_Italian + 47.7% Palestinian @ 2.49
2 62.8% Tuscan + 37.2% Palestinian @ 2.59
3 73.5% Tuscan + 26.5% Yemenite_Jewish @ 2.66
4 79.2% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.8% North_Dutch @ 2.67
5 78% Tunisian_Jewish + 22% North_German @ 2.7
6 86% Sephardic_Jewish + 14% Swedish @ 2.7
7 75.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 24.1% South_Dutch @ 2.74
8 79.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.1% Swedish @ 2.76
9 75.8% Tunisian_Jewish + 24.2% West_German @ 2.82
10 79.9% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.1% Norwegian @ 2.83
11 79.3% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.7% Irish @ 2.84
12 79.1% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.9% Danish @ 2.88
13 78.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 21.6% Southwest_English @ 2.9
14 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% Norwegian @ 2.9
15 86.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.8% North_Swedish @ 2.91
16 78.6% Tunisian_Jewish + 21.4% Southeast_English @ 2.92
17 86.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 13.4% West_Norwegian @ 2.92
18 79.6% Tunisian_Jewish + 20.4% West_Scottish @ 2.93
19 80.6% Tunisian_Jewish + 19.4% West_Norwegian @ 2.94
20 76.7% Tunisian_Jewish + 23.3% East_German @ 2.95

I don't know? They're my friends from Chile, they haven't gotten tested, 23andMe doesn't get here.

Mexico received many French immigrants. I have heard that this happened because Porfiro Diaz loved French culture. But I am not sure about it.

I am not surprised with Chile having the highest frequency of British surnames, Argentina having the highest frequency of Italians and French surnames, and Brazil having the highest frequency of German surnames.

Same, the first places are very much expected.

I'm also surprised with Colombia being so low in every ranking.

That means a really overwhelming majority of its European admixture is Iberian.