Meaning and purpose

[Psychonaut]

That's right. The purpose of life is to evolve to a level where it is aware of itself, and from there on to develop and improve itself. The ultimate goal of the process is the universe itself as a conscious entity.

That sounds strikingly similar to Teilhard's omega point.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Eldritch
That's right. The purpose of life is to evolve to a level where it is aware of itself, and from there on to develop and improve itself. The ultimate goal of the process is the universe itself as a conscious entity.

Rules of complexity certainly seem to be integral to life, I wonder if we can speak of them in the same sense as we can the four fundamental laws of physics?

[San Galgano]

I go with eristic of Protagoras(or better with the sophism of Protagoras)

If you don't know what are you searching for , once you find it, you will not recognize it as the target you were searching for.

[Psychonaut]

By the way there's not much sense in looking for an 'objective meaning' of things. Meaning is something projected by subjects every time. Even if a specific meaning could be assigned by a peculiar supernatural entity (i.e. "God") to life or whatever else, this wouldn't prevent other subjects to project different meanings.

This would only be the case if you interact with the world as if it were an object. If you are a lone subject amidst a field of objects, then of course you are the sole source of meaning. But if both you and the world are subjects, the transmission of meaning becomes a two way street.

[Aramis]

This would only be the case if you interact with the world as if it were an object. If you are a lone subject amidst a field of objects, then of course you are the sole source of meaning. But if both you and the world are subjects, the transmission of meaning becomes a two way street.

Oh, I understand. So is the universe, as a subject, going to crush our dreams of meaning sooner or later?

[Psychonaut]

Oh, I understand. So is the universe, as a subject, going to crush our dreams of meaning sooner or later?

I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

[Eldritch]

That sounds strikingly similar to Teilhard's omega point.

Oh? I've leafed through The Phenomenon of Man, but never actually sat down and read the damn thing. Perhaps I should.

If you read Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity is Near you'll find a very similar argument. It just has an even cooler name: The Omega Omnisphere.

You may recall a discussion on Transhumanism in some thread earlier in the summer, and me promising to return to the topic as soon as I get the opportunity to read up on a few things? Well that still stands, but it's taking quite a bit longer than I anticipated at first.

[Eldritch]

Rules of complexity certainly seem to be integral to life, I wonder if we can speak of them in the same sense as we can the four fundamental laws of physics?

Uh, I'm not sure I understand the question, can you please elaborate?

[Aramis]

I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

What's the relation of an individual human being to the subjectivity of his world?

Hence the Vader picture, who's fun you spoiled with logics.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Eldritch
Uh, I'm not sure I understand the question, can you please elaborate?

There are four fundamental laws of physics, electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong force.

In biology there are no comparable laws as such; natural selection is close but not quite on the same lines. However a few (but certainly not the majority of biologists) have argued that there are laws of complexity in nature as inherent as any physical law. What these laws state is that life began out of a process of autocatalysis that selection works upon. For some life is an emergent property not located within its constituents emerging from a prebiotic soup of chemical elements but a whole. It is importat to understand that this is a scientific proposal and in no way meant to be mystical but it lends to a greater sense of place than the general view of evolution as “chance caught on a wing”.

So is it a reasonable question to ask if life tends towards complexity?