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Thread: The oldest known White person lived 11,000 years ago in Ukraine

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    Default The oldest known White person lived 11,000 years ago in Ukraine

    From Anthrogenica, Ukrainian HG is now officially the oldest known "white person":

    Apparently it was a woman, because no Y-DNA haplogroup is listed for this sample:

    "Note that the Ukrainian HG is dated to 11143-10591 ybp so about 9193 BC-8641 BC and yet is derived for both SLC45A2 and SLC24A5 making it the oldest sample derived for both light skin mutations."



    ======================

    Edit:

    It turns out that it was a man, not a woman:

    http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...storic-Ukraine
    Last edited by Peterski; 02-04-2017 at 11:50 AM.

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    Apparently it was a woman, because all the males in the sample looked like this:


















    Last edited by Grab the Gauge; 02-03-2017 at 03:26 AM.

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    Grab the Gauge,

    No, there was just one sample, Ukraine_HG1 (and no Y-DNA is listed, just mtDNA):

    http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2...30/gr1_lrg.jpg


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    Latvia_LN1 is a Corded Ware sample (woman), autosomally identical to Early/Middle Bronze Age Steppe:

    (please note, that other Corded Ware samples found so far, had also EEF farmer admixture, LN1 doesn't):

    http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2...883527/gr2.jpg



    LN1 and EMBA Steppe are identical in K19. In K20, LN1 is very similar to two of the EMBA samples:

    http://i.imgur.com/DZNw4qc.png



    Latvian Corded Ware LN1 = Early/Middle Bronze Age Steppe transplanted straight into Latvia:

    http://i.imgur.com/l5sKJ7v.png


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    No, the oldest known white person is Villabruna. White skin doesn't make you white(besides, for all we know, ANE light skin genes made us darker, WHGs could have had light skin, we just don't know the SNP, just like Amur Manchus and Yakuts have none of the 1 known Mongoloid light skin gene, yet they're light skinned). Genetics does. Ukrainian HGs were Pocahontas mutts just like EHGs.

    Also, both Ukrainian HGs were brown eyed, so that now makes 3/4 EHGs brown eyed, while all WHGs were blue eyed.

    Lastly, despite the Polish propaganda on your previous thread, Latvian HGs were inbetween WHGs and SHGs, they were R1b, also missing the light skin genes. They were not EHGs.



    ANE(what shifts eastern Europeans and EHGs to the east) made Europeans darker, not lighter. Even if WHGs were darker skinned, it has nothing to do with the ANE influx, but rather differing diets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian View Post
    No, the oldest known white person is Villabruna.
    Villabruna HG was a swarthy Negrito wog. He did not have white skin mutations.

    Also, Latvian hunter-gatherers had more derived variants of R1b than Villabruna:

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

    - Latvia; Zvejnieki [Burial 93; HG2]; R1b1a1a P297; reported as R1b1b, using Karafet et al. 2008 tree; Jones 2017; additional info on Y-DNA from Sergey Malyshev; mtDNA U2e1

    - Latvia; Zvejnieki [Burial 121; HG3]; R1b1a1a P297; reported as R1b1b, using Karafet et al. 2008 tree; Jones 2017; additional info on Y-DNA from Sergey Malyshev; mtDNA U5a2d

    P297 is directly ancestral to modern Eurasian M269.

    Meanwhile, Villabruna's R1b was more closely related to African R1b-V88 than to M269.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Villabruna HG was a swarthy Negrito wog. He did not have white skin mutations.

    Also, Latvian hunter-gatherers had more derived variants of R1b than Villabruna:

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/mesolithicdna.shtml

    - Latvia; Zvejnieki [Burial 93; HG2]; R1b1a1a P297; reported as R1b1b, using Karafet et al. 2008 tree; Jones 2017; additional info on Y-DNA from Sergey Malyshev; mtDNA U2e1

    - Latvia; Zvejnieki [Burial 121; HG3]; R1b1a1a P297; reported as R1b1b, using Karafet et al. 2008 tree; Jones 2017; additional info on Y-DNA from Sergey Malyshev; mtDNA U5a2d

    P297 is directly ancestral to Eurasian M269.

    Meanwhile, Villabruna's R1b was more closely related to African R1b-V88 than to M269.
    Ukrainian HGs and EHGs were swarthy negrito wogs. They had brown eyes.

    Ukrainian HGs and EHGs may have had light skin, like a Japanese man will have light skin, but they were not "white" as we know it today.



    The native European phenotypes unaltered by Amerindian(Borreby, etc) were in WHGs:





    and, we still have no idea what skin colour WHGs had.

    Never forget: 100% WHG is superiour to 80% WHG+20% Amerindian.

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    both Ukrainian HGs were brown eyed, so that now makes 3/4 EHGs brown eyed
    Ukrainian HGs were not EHGs. They were mostly WHGs. Also here are pigmentation SNPs:



    As for R1b and R1a:

    In total, there are 11 known samples of R1a and R1b which are at least 6000 years old.

    The vast majority - seven - among the oldest samples of R1a and R1b are from this area:



    Outside of this area - 1x R1b in Villabruna, 1x R1b-V88 in Spain, 2x R1a in Lokomotiv.

    And that's all when it comes to R1a/b samples older than 6000 or at least 6000 years old.

    So the odds are that R1b-M269/L23 and R1a-M198/M417 both originated in East Europe.

    All known R1a/b samples older than 6000 years, chronologically:

    1) Villabruna, ca. 14180-13780 (avg. 13980) years ago - R1b
    2) Karelia, ca. 8850-8000 (avg. 8425) years ago - R1a
    3) Lokomotiv, ca. 8125-6025 (avg. 7075) years ago - R1a
    4) Lokomotiv, ca. 8125-6025 (avg. 7075) years ago - R1a
    5) Latvia, ca. 7800-7600 (avg. 7700) years ago - R1b
    6) Samara, ca. 7650-7560 (avg. 7605) years ago - R1b
    7) Iberia, ca. 7180-7060 (avg. 7120) years ago - R1b-V88
    8) Latvia, ca. 7250-6800 (avg. 7025) years ago - R1b
    9) Khvalynsk, ca. 7200-6000 (avg. 6600) years ago - R1b
    10) Khvalynsk, ca. 7200-6000 (avg. 6600) years ago - R1a
    11) Smolensk, around 6000 (avg. 6000) years ago - R1a

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    Ukrainian HGs were not EHG. They were like 75% WHG + 25% EHG, something like this.

    They were predominantly WHG. Bichon from Switzerland was a WHG with brown eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvin View Post
    Ukrainian HGs were not EHGs. They were mostly WHGs.
    No, they were not WHGs. They are to the east of SHGs, which are between WHGs and EHGs, which means they are closer to EHGs. They may not be fully EHG, but they have more EHG admixture.

    Face it, all this extra ANE(aka Amerindian, aka Balto-Slavic) is darkening Europeans.

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