INDOEUROPEICS - everything about Indoeuropeans (what doesn't fit to other threads).

[Rethel]

.

[Rethel]

About early Indoeuropeans like Yamnaya, Chwałyńsk and similar.
Unfortunately this lecture is based on many false, brainwashing
dates, so, you have be carefull and take it under consideration.
Exept this huge error, lecture is quite good and informative.

[Petalpusher]

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2021/...eat-shift.html

" However, most of the Volosovo males whose genomes are soon to be published belong to Y-haplogroup R1b."

Last nail to the coffin of euronativeness of Ugrofinians?
And another strong proof of the probable fact, that R1b was originaly the most
common IE clade, and R1a was a small timy branch scattered among R1bs.

All R1b in Yamnaya. It's possible that for some incredible reasons all the R1a weren't put in typical Yamnaya graves so they haven't been found so easily yet or were from a disenfranchised clan. Only appears later in CW.

https://www.academia.edu/44892216/An...A_SUNY_Buffalo

[Jaromir]

.

Fernando Viejo would be better

[Rethel]

[Rethel]

[Roy]

Now these are some impressive high orbits!

[Rethel]

All R1b in Yamnaya. It's possible that for some incredible reasons all the R1a weren't put in typical Yamnaya graves so they haven't been found so easily yet

Yamnayans couted hundreds of thousands if not millions of people.
99,9% was not buried in kurgans, the more, not all kurgans were
excavated, and not all excavated kurgans were checked on YDNA.

or were from a disenfranchised clan.

Just small one, like any branch of R1b at that time could be.

Only appears later in CW.

Both were contemporary, so, lack of 1a among Yamnayans could be
also explaied by that fact, that most of 1a-people lived in Corded-zone.
This slight difference in datation at the beginning point means nothing.

[Rethel]

Nope.
Quite established clearly.
For example in these fakely dated cultures:

Ertebölle:
"There is some evidence of conflict between Ertebølle settlements: an arrowhead in a pelvis at Skateholm, Sweden; a bone point in a throat at Vedbæk, Zealand; a bone point in the chest at Stora Biers, Sweden. More significant is evidence of cannibalism at Dyrholmen, Jutland, and Møllegabet on Ærø. There human bones were broken open to obtain the marrow. The evidence of marrow exploitation in the Ertebølle remains indicates dietary rather than ritual cannibalism; as marrow is never the subject of ritualistic cannibalism"

Magdalenian:

"Human bones from the Magdalenian often show cut marks and breakage, consistent with cannibalism with both flesh and bone marrow being consumed. Some skulls were cleaned of soft tissues, then had the facial regions removed, with the remaining brain case retouched, possibly to make the broken edges more regular. This manipulation suggests the shaping of skulls to produce skull cups.[8]"

Even in Neolithic:

"A temporary residential site, it was used by Neolithic agriculturalists as a storage area for their herds of goats and sheep, and also contained a number of bone depositions, containing the remains of domestic species, wild animals, and humans. The inclusion of the latter of these deposits led the archaeological team studying the site to propose that cannibalism had taken place at Fontbrégoua, although other archaeologists have instead suggested that they represent evidence of secondary burial.

The original excavators of the site, under the leadership of Paola Villa, argued that the treatment of human remains at the site constituted strong evidence of cannibalism."


Attachment 103717

Also the famous Cheddar-I2-man was treated like the Cheddar cheese by his companions...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/conten..._feature.shtml

[Rethel]

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2021/...june-2021.html

The PIE homeland controversy: June 2021 status report

Archeologist David Anthony has made several appearances online recently to promote his theories about the origins of the Corded Ware and Yamnaya cultures and peoples.

In a clip on Youtube he reiterated his theory that the so called Iranian-related ancestry in the Yamnaya people actually came from what is now Iran, and, more precisely, that it was carried by hunter-gatherers who travelled relatively rapidly from the South Caspian region into the Volga Delta in what is now Russia.

It's still a complete mystery to me as to why a group of hunter-gatherers from the South Caspian would undertake such a migration, instead of, say, expanding their range gradually over thousands of years, first into the Caucasus and eventually into Eastern Europe.

But there's a more serious problem with Anthony's theory: it contradicts the currently available ancient DNA. That's because the so called Iranian-related ancestry in the Yamnaya people is most closely related to the Kotias and Satsurblia hunter-gatherers from what is now Georgia, and these hunter-gatherers form a separate clade from the earliest samples from what is now Iran. For instance, see here and here.

Also, in a podcast on Razib's blog, Anthony doubled down on his theory that Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a was closely associated with Yamnaya plebs who were excluded from Kurgan burials, and, as a result, their remains haven't yet been sampled.

At least this theory isn't yet contradicted by ancient DNA, but it's more complicated and less parsimonious than my theory, which posits that R1a, or rather R1a-M417, was simply a very rare lineage in the Yamnaya population, and that it only became a common and widespread marker thanks to the Corded Ware expansion (see here).

Intriguingly, my understanding is that there are several unpublished R1a samples from the Caspian and Volga steppes at Harvard's David Reich Lab that have been classified by its scientists as Yamnaya outliers. Of course, Anthony is collaborating on at least one major paper with this lab (see here).

Ergo, I strongly suspect that Anthony's theory is in part based on these Yamnaya outliers. However, I also believe that these samples are wrongly dated and probably represent Scythians and/or Sarmatians. I'll be able to look into that if they're ever published.

Speaking of the David Reich Lab, its leading scientists, David Reich and Nick Patterson, have also made appearances online recently, on Youtube and Razib's blog, respectively, to reveal that the Corded Ware and Yamnaya peoples aren't just very similar genetically, but in fact close cousins.

This is a very interesting finding. Apparently it's based on a relatively high level of Identity-by-Descent (IBD) segment sharing between Corded Ware and Yamnaya samples, but that's all I know. I'm guessing that the relevant paper is coming soon (that is, within the next five years).

However, the long-standing question that the readers of this blog want to see answered is not whether the Corded Ware and Yamnaya peoples are close cousins, but whether Yamnaya migrants founded the Corded Ware culture. The obvious way to prove that they did is to find at least one ancient population unambiguously classified as part of the Yamnaya horizon that is rich in the typically Corded Ware Y-haplogroups R1a-M417 and R1b-L151.