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Thread: INDOEUROPEICS - everything about Indoeuropeans (what doesn't fit to other threads).

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    The lost speakers...


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    卍Descendant of a Simurgh and Garuda卍 Shah-Jehan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Rethel of Retheley View Post
    The lost speakers...

    What IE language was spoken in North Africa before any other?
    The Indo-Aryan Languages--------Beautiful Bengal--------Kashmir: Paradise on Earth--------The Nord-Indid Phenotype--------Ethnic Groups of Southern Asia

    卐Janani Janmabhumischa Swargadapi Gariyasi卐

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah-Jehan View Post
    What IE language was spoken in North Africa before any other?
    Greek, latin and east germanic.
    Also some persian, slavic and maybe
    in the deep antiquity some celtic...

    But they were not all in Bronze Age.
    Description is wrong, especially, that
    does not include Finland and Estonia.

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    卍Descendant of a Simurgh and Garuda卍 Shah-Jehan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Rethel of Retheley View Post
    Persian, Greek and Latin.
    How? What about Phoenician presence in the area, as well as the area being the heartland of the Berber languages.
    The Indo-Aryan Languages--------Beautiful Bengal--------Kashmir: Paradise on Earth--------The Nord-Indid Phenotype--------Ethnic Groups of Southern Asia

    卐Janani Janmabhumischa Swargadapi Gariyasi卐

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shah-Jehan View Post
    How? What about Phoenician presence in the area, as well as the area being the heartland of the Berber languages.
    As you can see, it is on the coastline.
    Deeper were obviously local hamitic languages.

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    As I many times said, there was no white Ugrofinians in northern Europe,
    but were the Indoeuropeans which gave the look to modern Finchurians.

    Indoeuropean Esthonia.png

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    Understanding how the Corded Ware Culture was formed in Europe - 5 IV 2017



    In an earlier study Professor Kristian Kristiansen from the University of Gothenburg in Sweden and Lundbeck Foundation Professor Eske Willerslev from the Centre for GeoGenetics at the University of Copenhagen, and their research teams, showed that the large demographic changes during the first part of the Bronze Age happened as a result of massive migrations of Yamnaya people from the Pontic-Caspian steppes into Neolithic Europe. They were also able to show that plague was widespread in both Europe and Central Asia at this time.

    Now Professor Kristiansen and Professor Willerslev with co-authors reveal a more detailed view of the mechanism behind the emerging culture known as the Corded Ware Culture — the result of the encounter between the Yamnaya and the Neolithic people. Professor Kristian Kristiansen says: “We are now for the first time able to combine results from genetics, strontium isotopes on mobility and diet, and historical linguistics on language change, to demonstrate how the integration process unfolded on the ground after the Yamnaya migrations from the steppe. In our grand synthesis we argue that Yamnaya migrants were predominantly males, who married women who came from neighbouring Stone Age farming societies” These Stone Age Neolithic societies were based on large farming communities reflected in their collective burial ritual often in big stone chambers, so called megaliths. Very different from the traditions of the incoming migrants.
    Barrows in the Danish landscape. Image: Danish National Museum

    Barrows in the Danish landscape. Image: Danish National Museum

    The origin of the Yamnaya

    The Yamnaya people originated on the Caspian steppes where they lived as pastoralists and herders, using wagons as mobile homes. From burial pits archaeologists have found extensive use of thick plant mats and felt covers. Their economy was based on meat, dairy products and fish, they were tall and rather healthy with little caries in their teeth. No agriculture is documented. Barrows were aligned in groups forming lines in the landscape to mark seasonal routes and after death diseased people were put into individual graves under small family barrows. Their burial ritual thus embodied a new perception of the individual and of small monogamous family groups as the foundation of society. The continent encountered by the Yamnaya people around 3000 BC had seen a decline in the agrarian Stone Age societies, thereby allowing space for incoming migrants. This decline was probably the result of a widespread plague from Siberia to the Baltic.

    “The disease dynamic here may have been comparable to the European colonization process in America after Christopher Columbus“, says Kristiansen. “Perhaps Yamnaya brought plague to Europe and caused a massive collapse in the population“.
    “Black Youth” as migrating males and their marriage to Neolithic women

    In the new synthesis article, Kristiansen and colleagues argue for a dominance of males during the early phase after the migrations, and correspond to the old Indo-European mythology of later times. These sources talk about war-bands of youths – called “Black Youth” — who were employed in pioneer migrations as a dynamic force. Evidence from strontium isotopic analyses, published in 2016 by Kristiansen together with Douglas Price and Karl Goran Sjogren, showed that a majority of the women in Corded Ware burials in south Germany were non-locals who had married in from Neolithic societies, since they had a Neolithic diet in their childhood. These results now form part of the new synthesis. Professor Kristian Kristiansen says: “Existing archaeological evidence of a strong 90% male dominance in the early phase of the Corded Ware/Single Grave Culture settlement in Jutland, Denmark, and elsewhere can now be explained by the old Indo-European tradition of war bands of young males who did not have any inheritance to look forward to. Therefore they were probably more willing to make a career as migrating war bands.”

    These Neolithic women also brought new knowledge of pottery production, and started to imitate pottery containers made of wood from the Yamnaya migrants. In this way a new pottery culture was created called Corded Ware, because of the cord impressions around the neck of the pots. They were made for beer drinking, and the new migrants also learned how to grow barley from the in-married Neolithic women in order to produce beer.
    Rapid genetic changeover from Neolithic to Corded Ware cultures after 3000 BC

    Eske Willerslev undertook the ancient DNA analyses together with Morten Allentoft and Martin Sikora. Professor Willerslev says:

    “In our big Bronze Age study, published in 2015 we were astonished to see how strong and fast the genetic changeover was from the Neolithic to the Corded Ware. There was a heavy reduction of Neolithic DNA in temperate Europe, and a dramatic increase of the new Yamnaya genomic component that was only marginally present in Europe prior to 3000 BC. Moreover, the apparent abruptness with which this change occurred indicates that it was a large-scale migration event, rather than a slow periodic inflow of people“.
    New words and new Proto-Germanic dialect

    The Yamnaya brought the Indo-European languages into Bronze Age Europe, but as herders, they did not have words for crops or cultivation, unlike the Neolithic farmers. As the Corded Ware Culture developed it adopted words related to farming from the indigenous Neolithic people, which they were admixing with. Guus Kroonen, a historical linguist, was able to demonstrate that these new words did not belong to the original Indo-European languages. Therefore it was possible to conclude that the Neolithic people were not speaking an Indo-European language, as did the Yamnaya migrants. Thus, the process of genetic and cultural admixture was accompanied by a process of language admixture, creating the foundations for later Germanic languages, termed Proto-Germanic.
    The birth of the Bronze Age

    The Yamnaya migrations from the Pontic-Caspian steppe into temperate Europe changed the course of history: they brought not only a new language, but also new ideas about how society was organized around small monogamous families with individual ownership to animals and land. This new society became the foundation for the Bronze Age, and for the way European societies continued to develop to the present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Rethel of Retheley View Post
    Something small, but interesting:

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...ican-dogs.html

    North European and West African dogs: cryptic relatives

    Might not this be linked to the expansion of R1b-V88 into West Africa?

    Abstract: Domestic dogs have an ancient origin and a long history in Africa. Nevertheless, the timing and sources of their introduction into Africa remain enigmatic. Herein, we analyse variation in mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) D-loop sequences from 345 Nigerian and 37 Kenyan village dogs plus 1530 published sequences of dogs from other parts of Africa, Europe and West Asia. All Kenyan dogs can be assigned to one of three haplogroups (matrilines; clades): A, B, and C, while Nigerian dogs can be assigned to one of four haplogroups A, B, C, and D. None of the African dogs exhibits a matrilineal contribution from the African wolf (Canis lupus lupaster). The genetic signal of a recent demographic expansion is detected in Nigerian dogs from West Africa. The analyses of mitochondrial genomes reveal a maternal genetic link between modern West African and North European dogs indicated by sub-haplogroup D1 (but not the entire haplogroup D) coalescing around "12,000"
    [genetical] years ago. Incorporating molecular anthropological evidence, we propose that sub-haplogroup D1 in West African dogs could be traced back to the late-glacial dispersals, potentially associated with human hunter-gatherer migration from southwestern Europe.
    The most recent common ancestor of today’s dogs lived in Central Asia


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    Hmmm... seems interesting...

    https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/en...cal-dictionary

    This project aims to identify and describe the common lexical heritage of the Indo-European languages.

    Duration
    1991 - 2015
    Contact
    Sasha Lubotsky
    Funding
    Koninklijke Brill NV Koninklijke Brill NV

    NWO NWO
    Partners

    Guus Kroonen, University of Copenhagen (Germanic)
    Ranko Matasović, University of Zagreb (Celtic)
    Michael Peyrot, University of Vienna (Tocharian)
    Tijmen Pronk (Balto-Slavic)
    Velizar Sadovski, University of Vienna (Iranian)

    The Department of Comparative Indo-European Linguistics has been working on the project since 1991. In 1997, the project received a substantial grant from the NWO (three postdocs for three years). The Research School CNWS supported the project with three PhD positions (and later with two more). Due to Visitors Travel Grants of the NWO, Dr. J. Hilmarsson (Reykjavík), Prof. Dr. S. Starostin (Moscow), Prof. Dr. R. Matasović (Zagreb) and Dr. V. Sadovski (Vienna) have made important contributions to the project. Since 2005, the project is financially supported by the publishing house “Koninklijke Brill NV”, by the Faculty of Humanities of Leiden University and by the Leiden University Centre for Linguistics.
    The results

    The results of the project are since 2005 being published in “ The Leiden Indo- European Etymological Dictionary series” (Brill, Leiden). Ten volumes have appeared up till now:

    “Old Frisian Etymological Dictionary” by Dirk Boutkan & Sjoerd Michiel Siebinga (2005)
    “Etymological Dictionary of the Iranian verb” by Johnny Cheung (2007)
    “The Origin of the Indo-Iranians” by Elena E. Kuz’mina & J.P. Mallory (2007)
    “Etymological Dictionary of the Slavic Inherited Lexicon” by Rick Derksen (2008)
    “Etymological Dictionary of the Hittite Inherited Lexicon” by Alwin Kloekhorst (2008)
    “Reconstructing Proto-Nostratic: Comparative Phonology, Morphology, and Vocabulary” by Allan R. Bomhard (2008)
    “Etymological Dictionary of Latin and the other Italic Languages” by Michiel de Vaan (2008)
    “Etymological Dictionary of Proto-Celtic” by Ranko Matasović (2009)
    “Etymological Dictionary of Greek” by Robert Beekes with the assistance of Lucien van Beek (2010);
    “Etymological Dictionary of the Armenian Inherited Lexicon” by Hrach Martirosyan (2010).

    Most of these books are also available in the form of searchable databases at the website of Brill.

    Projects in progress and some other interlinked databases can be further found on the website of the project.

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