Ethnogenesis of Normandy

[cosmoo]

Yes you are denying the existence of my people, how would you react to read someone telling your people is an "innaccuracy" or a "pseudoidentity" not to mention the rest ? Your argument is to say it is not supported by history ? then you are completely ignorant about the Norman history so you should better open some books and learn it again properly instead of posting those off topic negationnist useless posts.

About the demography of french people and replacement, this is not accurate everywhere in the french territory. Dont generalize what is happening in Paris and the biggest urban areas to the whole Nation.

You ave no clue of what you are talking about obviously.

I'm afraid neither history nor genetics support your claim of large-scale Norse settlement of Normandy.
The fact that you are proudly displaying an alleged statement of Gange Rolv in your signature, a triplenigger who got himself banished from Norway for raiding his own land, makes your whole identity appear rather wewuz-y.
Having origins from Spain and other parts of France (which were never settled by Goths, by the way, only by their warrior elite), yet renouncing them, only enhances this even further.

[Ilma]

I'm afraid neither history nor genetics support your claim of large-scale Norse settlement of Normandy.
The fact that you are proudly displaying an alleged statement of Gange Rolv in your signature, a triplenigger who got himself banished from Norway for raiding his own land, makes your whole identity appear rather wewuz-y.
Having origins from Spain and other parts of France (which were never settled by Goths, by the way, only by their warrior elite), yet renouncing them, only enhances this even further.

Oh I see now, again this jealousy against the so-called Norse-settlement of ours. When will you stop sticking to your stereotypes to begin with ? Where did I claim Normandy and Norman people are Scandinavians ? LOL. I had this discussion like many times yet and it's funny to me because you are completely off. Search and tell us, where and when did I ever say Norman people are Scandinavians ? You will be dead before to find it because I never wrote such a thing, too bad. Norman ethnogenesis is not only based on the Norse settlement from middle-age. Norse settlement only made Normandy officially as a land and people apart from France in 911, Treaty of Saint-Clair sur Epte. But you didn't read my Ethnogenesis thread so you are completely ignorant about who Normans are, now this is clear. Thanks for precising your thoughts

Now I'm inviting you to continue this discussion on the Ethnogenesis thread (here : https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...is-of-Normandy) where it would be proper place to debate such things, not on here where you are making silly off-topic from yesterday just in order to attack me personally. Why don't you post in the proper thread ? Are you afraid to confront your ignorant arguments against my 48 scientific sources and that archeologists will laugh at you ? I truly don't get why

Now you have no proper argument at all you are attacking me about the funder of Normandy, Hrólfr. Which is funny to me as well you call him a nigger. You can attack him on the fact he was outlaw for his crime in Norway which is true but he's not the Father of all Normans, just the one who made Normandy legit land officially by submissing the french King who gave them Normandy as their land and which remains til today. If you want to go further you should attack all the Norman nobility ruling class then instead of my people since he was the ancestor of William the Conqueror and so on. Oh will you now also attack William for being a bastard ? what a mainstream middle-age attack this would be For your knowledge he was perfectly legit since frillas were recognized by the Norman laws, he was the legit son of Robert I, Duke of Normandy, like it or not and I wish you were among the rebelious he fought in the Val-ès-Dunes battle the 10th of August in 1047 to prove his place and put them in their place

Then your third point is to attack me about my father side which is not Norman, I wonder why ? What this has to do with your accusations on Norman people, can you tell me ? You seem to get lost. BTW settlement of Visigoths in Septimania in Spain is proved and attested, I wont open a thread about that 'cause I concentrate my threads on Normandy mainly but a simple short research is enough to find it. There are archeologist proofs of their presence, remains in architecture, remains in toponymy and remains strongly in surnames in Septimania who are without a doubt from visigothic origin and proved not from another germanic origins because they differ from the rest of French germanic surnames. Also can you explain why there is still today a minority in Septimania and Spain who are looking germanic and not Med, hmm ?

I don't get why you are willing to waste such amount of time in this thread by attacking me personally and my people as an excuse Jealousy is something interesting.

[cosmoo]

...

Just accept the fact that you are not Germanic and move on. Genetics totally mow down your claims, especially the one about "Septimania" being dominantly Gothic-descended. It is not, only ruling Gothic warrior elite settled there, insufficient to leave any trace, which is perfectly visible in paternal lineages of those parts.

I am not "offending historical persons", but merely pointing out the fact that you take pride in a non-commendable man, and moreover, that you are basing your identity on feudal lordship, not on actual ethnic distinction, which is beyond retarded. It would be the same as if I invented "Herzegovinian" identity based on the fact that my ancestors come from the parts which were (and still are) called Herzegovina because Herzeg Stjepan ruled them.
"Norman" identity is actually not recognized by anyone except you (and few other wewuzers, I reckon).

And unrelated to this discussion, yes, William was a bastard indeed. Normans (and I am talking about Norse-descended noblemen, not about your imaginary pseudoethnicity) were the iron fist of Vatican through whole Europe, carrying out pope's will at the expense of local populations (as they did in England, completely replacing and forcing into exile old Anglo-Saxon nobility and priesthood solely because they were not seen as fit by Catholic church).

[Robocop]

I'm afraid neither history nor genetics support your claim of large-scale Norse settlement of Normandy.
The fact that you are proudly displaying an alleged statement of Gange Rolv in your signature, a triplenigger who got himself banished from Norway for raiding his own land, makes your whole identity appear rather wewuz-y.
Having origins from Spain and other parts of France (which were never settled by Goths, by the way, only by their warrior elite), yet renouncing them, only enhances this even further.

Well friend, she feels Norman and feels connection to Norman ppl, things like that are not always connected to genetics etc...

We should respect the identity what someone consider for him/herself, for example, who are you or me (or anyone else here) to say (for example) to Catalans; "you're full of bullshit, you're just Spaniards".

That would be ignorant, they feel they're Catalans, and half of them wants independence, nevermind of their genetics or whatever. Hope you get my point.

[Robocop]

Što se mene tiče može se izjašnjavati i kao burek sa sirom, govorim o istorijskim činjenicama.

But what historical facts? We know for a fact Normans came to Normandy, let's say they're not today much different from Non-Normans around them, but look at that name; Normandy, means that name didn't fell from the sky, means it didn't survived for centuries FOR FUN.

It survived because ppl have identity, if you mix genetics into ethnics/nations you can erase all nations of today.

That's why I took Catalans for example, they're not much different by genetics from rest of Iberians, but for some reason they're Catalans, or you're Montenegrin, or someone is German or Dutch, or Croatian or Italian, maybe someone is even Martian I don't know, but the point is someone feel connects to somethin trough cultural way and identity as identity, and all that is making what some nation or ethnic is.

You know well as I do that Ancient Greeks were mixed by different genetics till 500 BC, what that means? They're not Greeks? Sure they are, because if you would apply genetics on what is what considering ethnics/nation, only Dorians would be Greeks and Ionians (for example) would be Greek half-breeds of Dorians pre-Dorian society of mainland Greece (just another example).

Nation/Ethnic is; Cultural identity, Historical identity felt in those who identify with somethin, language, and in some cases even religion, but most of all; cultural and historical identity.

Genetics can be involved ofcourse out of curiosity for some nation, because you're interested from scientific aspect what Y-DNA (example also) is dominant in some country, but if you would apply genetics DE FACTO on nation, you would be no different than Nazis man.

[Ilma]

Do you always flip out like this when being unable to lead a coherent discussion, playing victim and throwing "u misinterpreting me!!1" mantra around?.

I did answer you with coherent proper arguments and led you to the proper thread to talk about Norman ethnogenesis but you ignored all of my sources, my arguments and the concerned proper thread because you are just an ignorant pussy unable to face real attested historical and archeological facts because you only starting the discussion without any other intention that attacking me personnally on a random thread resulting in off-topic.

[Ilma]

But what historical facts? We know for a fact Normans came to Normandy, let's say they're not today much different from Non-Normans around them, but look at that name; Normandy, means that name didn't fell from the sky, means it didn't survived for centuries FOR FUN.

It survived because ppl have identity, if you mix genetics into ethnics/nations you can erase all nations of today.

That's why I took Catalans for example, they're not much different by genetics from rest of Iberians, but for some reason they're Catalans, or you're Montenegrin, or someone is German or Dutch, or Croatian or Italian, maybe someone is even Martian I don't know, but the point is someone feel connects to somethin trough cultural way and identity as identity, and all that is making what some nation or ethnic is.

You know well as I do that Ancient Greeks were mixed by different genetics till 500 BC, what that means? They're not Greeks? Sure they are, because if you would apply genetics on what is what considering ethnics/nation, only Dorians would be Greeks and Ionians (for example) would be Greek half-breeds of Dorians pre-Dorian society of mainland Greece (just another example).

Nation/Ethnic is; Cultural identity, Historical identity felt in those who identify with somethin, language, and in some cases even religion, but most of all; cultural and historical identity.

Genetics can be involved ofcourse out of curiosity for some nation, because you're interested from scientific aspect what Y-DNA (example also) is dominant in some country, but if you would apply genetics DE FACTO on nation, you would be no different than Nazis man.

Just off-topic about genetics : so how comes Norman samples included in Gedmatch calc are giving different result than frenchmen ? let's say more broadly even the "north western france" do.

[Robocop]

Just off-topic about genetics : so how comes Norman samples included in Gedmatch calc are giving different result than frenchmen ? let's say more broadly even the "north western france" do.

They do, Normandy show for example less Mediterranean Autosomal DNA (just an example) than rest of France, it's on same level as Germany etc...;



But my point was to show what nation/ethnic is, it is cultural aspect as primary thing.

[Anthropos]

They do, Normandy show for example less Mediterranean Autosomal DNA (just an example) than rest of France, it's on same level as Germany etc...;



But my point was to show what nation/ethnic is, it is cultural aspect as primary thing.

Really? The purest nations are still in the making. Genetic scientists have shown that differentiation is the trend. That's quite special and precious in this age of random migrations.

[Ilma]

They do, Normandy show for example less Mediterranean Autosomal DNA (just an example) than rest of France, it's on same level as Germany etc...;



But my point was to show what nation/ethnic is, it is cultural aspect as primary thing.

Yes but you said they are not much different genetically from other frenchmen so I was wondering why those sample say othrtwise. They end closer to french as croats to hungarians in term of genetical distance I guess. I will move ths discussion to my thread and ask Peterski about genetics, he knows the norman samples and will explain things better than I do in term of genetics.