Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin' says Prof David Nutt

**~~Treffie~~** · 11-01-2010, 09:28 AM

With heroin, which is instantly addictive, the first high is always the best. After this, the user is always trying to reach the same state of euphoria that they had with their initial hit.

**TriRÿche** · 11-01-2010, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Treffie

With alcohol, which is instantly addictive to the alcoholic, the first drunk is always the best. After this, the drinker is always trying to reach the same state of euphoria that they had with their initial drink.

There. (Fixed that for you).

The problem isn't the "Drug of choice." The problem is that many of us are born with that "Addictive/Defective" gene.

/Recovering ethanol addict.

.

**Fortis in Arduis** · 11-01-2010, 10:45 AM

It is possible to enjoy opiates without building tolerance or addiction:

No more than once a week and increase the dose but stop on finding a dose which suits.

**Wölfin** · 11-01-2010, 10:59 AM

Both of you are right in a way and wrong in an other. While there are genes that factor in to Addictions of both Heroine and Alcohol (and others, but these are the two being talked about and which I know have been tested for) the Alcohol does not always cause immediate dependency even in the individuals who are genetically prone to addiction. Wheras in Heroine it is always addictive instantly in those who are genetically prone to the addiction.

I know of only one heroin user who has managed to keep his use moderate and under control. He leads a successful life, has a career and lots of money. His secret? He doesn't chase the same/better high. He has kept his dosage the same since he begun. And I'm sure he probably has some good genes too.

As for the article/chart, alcohol probably ranked as high harm to others because of several factors, including its widespread use, which means more people are going to be affected directly or indirectly. The biggest "harm to others" that comes to mind is Drunk Driving and all the accidents that happen with that. A heroin user that is high is too busy being vegetative to drive, for example. (And that's a good thing) But if you compare the greenish bar, it is longer for several drugs than for alcohol.

Others have also brought up good points about moderation versus excess and is it possible for users of certain things to be moderate or not. For those who are addiction prone it takes a lot of self control, and these types should avoid it all together. I feel people should be more educated on how to use drugs, yes many teens are told it is bad but are not always forewarned of why and how. Because you know many are going to try it anyway, when being educated about drugs, they should be told in depth of the hazards and risks. Tragedies could have been avoided if they were told not to mix so and so. Damage to the body could have been reduced if they were told that water (not just any other fluid) should be drinked regularly and I could go on like this for a long time.

This is to me the defining line between a pothead junkie who cannot go without smoking a joint every few hours (and think about it, it is seen as a fairly harmless drug, does not easily cause dependence physiologically etc.) and the guy who's tried everything in the book ONCE and yet is leading a successful life without having to go to rehab. It's not just "pure chance" more often than not, the second case knew a lot better about what he was dealing with.

I am not explicitly for legalizing street drugs, I am however very much for better education on this topic, for the good of all. Just like a good sex ed program reduces unwanted and teen pregnancies as well as the transmission of STIs, whilst an abstinence only program does not stop teens from having sex.

(Of course this is all very relative to where you live mind you)

**~~Eldritch~~** · 11-01-2010, 12:59 PM

Heroin is actually not that harmful in its pure, clean form.

I don't know about its addictiveness, but its withdrawal symptoms aren't that bad either -- they're unpleasant but not life-threatening, like a severe alcohol withdrawal syndrome can be.

Most of the problems surrounding heroin are secondary, such as impurities (heroin cut with toxic substances) or HIV or hepatitis infections caused by shared needles. Not that I'm advocating legalising it, but doing so would eliminate almost all of these problems.

**TriRÿche** · 11-01-2010, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Eldritch

Heroin is actually not that harmful in its pure, clean form.

I don't know about its addictiveness, but its withdrawal symptoms aren't that bad either -- they're unpleasant but not life-threatening, like a severe alcohol withdrawal syndrome can be.

Quite correct, Eldritch. More people [alcoholics] in the United States die from alcohol-deprivation-related seizures annually than heroin and cocaine overdoses combined.

In the late 1800's through the early 1900's, morphine, heroine, and cocaine were sold over-the-counter in the United States (in their pure forms) and were still not responsible for even a tenth of the damage that alcohol caused in the population.

**Loki** · 11-01-2010, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Aye, but (and this is the reason I'll never support legalization of these two), is it even possible for there to be moderate users of crack and heroin? There are many recreational users of drugs which are currently illegal who lead very successful lives and are no more impacted by their drug use than is a moderate drinker by his couple of daily beers. But do you ever see that with these two drugs?

I haven't tried either so can't comment on experience. However, heroin is basically morphine. Thousands of people use morphine for extreme pain relief. They don't end up being junkies. As for crack, I can't really comment. But crack, which is basically cocaine, is self-limiting in the sense that your body gets used to it. Many users just stop when it fails to enthral them after a while.

**~~Treffie~~** · 11-01-2010, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Loki

I haven't tried either so can't comment on experience. However, heroin is basically morphine. Thousands of people use morphine for extreme pain relief. They don't end up being junkies. As for crack, I can't really comment. But crack, which is basically cocaine, is self-limiting in the sense that your body gets used to it. Many users just stop when it fails to enthral them after a while.

Don't know about that. It's so easy to get addicted to codeine.

**Atlas** · 11-01-2010, 10:57 PM

The Lancet is not some magazine writing for sensasionalism but having two glasses of red wines everyday or some hits on a crackpipes, Heroin injection, my choice is done.