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Thread: Percent of blond hair among Ugro-Finns and their neighbours

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian
    if Finland's blondness is overrated by the lack of inclusion of east Finns(most would just gather samples from Helsinki or SW Finland where most of the population is)
    In the post linked by the OP, Ingrians (85%), North-Eastern Finns (81.7%), and Karelians (79.9%) all had a higher frequency of light-colored hair (classes 1 + 2 + 3 + 4) than the group labeled as simply "Finnish" (77.2%). Ingrians are not really a distinct ethnicity, but they are an Eastern Finnish population that moved to the area of Ingria in the 17th century.

    Population 1+2+3+4 1+2+3
    Curonian 100 70
    Estonian 86 34.5
    Votic 85.4 26.8
    Ingrian 85 22.5
    North-West Russian (Ostrw) 84.7 48.9
    Finnish (North-East) 81.7 26
    Mordvin (Teryukhan) 81.2 21.8
    Karelian 79.9 25.7
    Mordvin (Karatai) 77.8 20.4
    Finnish 77.2 30.2
    North Latvian (Limbazi) 75.8 33.8
    Swedish-Finnish 75.7 21.3
    Izhorian 71 23.7
    Komi-Zyrian 70.2 18.5
    Erzya 66.5 19.9
    Moksha 63.3 16
    Vepsan 62.5 20.2
    Komi-Permyak 61.3 14.5
    Russian (Volga-Ural) 60.7 13.2
    Livonian 56.6 15.1
    Udmurt 54 16.7
    Saami 52.7 10.3
    Udmurt (Besserman) 51.6 13.7
    Mari 46.3 7.6
    Chuvash 34.8 4.7
    Tatar 32.2 4.5
    Mansi 30.1 2.7
    Khanty 24.4 2.2
    Bashkir 17.3 0.6

    Quote Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian
    it's been long established that Scandinavians and Finns are the blondest populations in the world
    In the table above, Estonians are the blondest Baltic Finnic population by either definition of being blonde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justalittlevisit View Post
    The Finns are likely the European nation with the highest occurrence of the epicanthic fold (think of Pekka-Eric Auvinen). It is because of their East Asian admixture (Eupedia map of East Asian admixture).
    The post linked by the OP also includes data for eye shape. Estonians are more Mongoloid-shifted than the three Finnish groups (Finnish, Finnish (North-East), and Ingrian) in all three metrics, apart from the "Finnish (North-East)" group having a higher prevalence of a "Mongol fold" (3.5%) than Estonians (2.3%). Then again, is Spmi or Mari El a nation?

    Population Inner eyelid
    fold strength
    3 = strong,
    0 = missing
    % lack inner
    eyelid fold
    % lack
    Mongol fold
    Khanty 1.89 5.4 82.6
    Mansi 1.8 8 81.4
    Bashkir 1.7 5.7 89.1
    Mari 1.58 10.3 86.3
    Komi-Permyak 1.53 12.1 97.2
    Chuvash 1.51 11.6 87.7
    Udmurt (Besserman) 1.45 9.4 96.4
    Komi-Zyrian 1.45 14.1 95.7
    Izhorian 1.45 14 98
    Udmurt 1.44 14.9 91.1
    Tatar 1.37 14.9 87.3
    Estonian 1.36 14.5 97.7
    Finnish 1.35 16.2 98.1
    Vepsan 1.34 13.9 98.2
    Finnish (North-East) 1.34 18.9 96.5
    Erzya 1.32 16.3 94.9
    Swedish-Finnish 1.29 17.1 98.3
    Finnish Saami 1.28 22.9 93
    Karelian 1.24 21.3 98.2
    Russian (Volga-Ural) 1.21 20.7 98
    Mordvin (Karatai) 1.2 21.6 90.8
    Moksha 1.13 30.3 92.6
    Lapland Komi 1.1 31.7 95.2
    Mordvin (Teryukhan) 1.08 23.1 98.1
    Ingrian 1 29.4 100
    Votic 0.97 31.7 98.4
    North Latvian (Limbazi) 0.9 15.2 -
    Livonian 0.88 40.8 -
    North-West Russian (Ostrw) 0.78 39 -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    Light eyes 69%, mixed 29%, brown only 2%
    The so-called "mixed" colors on the Bunak scale are also light-colored (green or gray), apart from maybe color 5.

    Class 2 ("dark") includes 1 (black), 2 (dark brown), 3 (light brown), and 4 (yellow). Class 1 ("mixed") includes 5 (dark-mixed), 6 (green), 7 (mixed gray-green), and 8 (gray with a ring). Class 0 ("light") includes 9 (gray), 10 (gray blue), 11 (light blue), and 12 (dark blue).



    Anyway, 2% seems like a too low figure for the prevalence of brown and black eyes among Finns. Maybe the classification of eye color was not actually based on the Bunak scale, but class 2 only included black eyes, and brown eyes were included in class 1 or something. Even Khanty have 54.3% "mixed" (class 1) and 42.4% "dark" (class 2) eyes, and Bashkirs have 49.6% "mixed" (class 1) and 41.2% "dark" (class 2) eyes.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymyyakhtakh View Post


    The post linked by the OP also includes data for eye shape. Estonians are more Mongoloid-shifted than the three Finnish groups (Finnish, Finnish (North-East), and Ingrian) in all three metrics, apart from the "Finnish (North-East)" group having a higher prevalence of a "Mongol fold" (3.5%) than Estonians (2.3%). Then again, is Spmi or Mari El a nation?
    Finnish-East are just form NE Finland



    The so-called "mixed" colors on the Bunak scale are also light-colored (green or gray), apart from maybe color 5.


    Anyway, 2% seems like a too low figure for the prevalence of brown and black eyes among Finns. Maybe the classification of eye color was not actually based on the Bunak scale, but class 2 only included black eyes, and brown eyes were included in class 1 or something. Even Khanty have 54.3% "mixed" (class 1) and 42.4% "dark" (class 2) eyes, and Bashkirs have 49.6% "mixed" (class 1) and 41.2% "dark" (class 2) eyes.
    It was based on Bunak scale. But yes among mixed eyes was included mixed color no 5, which is hazel-darkgreen and other classification would count it as dark.

    For Khants or Bashkirs probbaly most prevalent is number 5 in mixed category.
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    Curonians=native Memellanders correct? Or sorta?

    Longobard + Saxon (3.065)
    Celt + Longobard (3.315)
    Longobard (5.104)
    Celt (6.764)
    Saxon (7.239)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    But this is about Russians who live in the Baltic States. Their ancestors could come from some woggy parts of Russia.

    What makes you think that all of Russians in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania originally came from North-Western Russia?
    I played hockey with a guy from Lithuania a few years back, but he was of mixed Kazakh/Siberian origin.

    Longobard + Saxon (3.065)
    Celt + Longobard (3.315)
    Longobard (5.104)
    Celt (6.764)
    Saxon (7.239)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Interesting data:

    [Language family] Population - % blond hair:

    [Baltic] Curonians - 70,0
    [Slavic] North-Western Russians - 48,9
    [Uralic] Estonians - 34,5
    [Baltic] Northern Latvians - 33,8
    [Uralic] Finns - 30,2
    [Uralic] Votes - 26,8
    [Uralic] North-Eastern Finns - 26,0
    [Uralic] Karelians - 25,7
    [Uralic] Izhorians - 23,7
    [Uralic] Ingrians - 22,5
    [Uralic] Mordvins Teryuhan - 21,8
    [Germanic] Swedes in Finland - 21,3
    [Uralic] Mordvins Karatai - 20,4
    [Uralic] Vepsians - 20,2
    [Uralic] Mordvins Erzya - 19,9
    [Uralic] Komi-Zyrians - 18,5
    [Uralic] Udmurts - 16,7
    [Uralic] Mordvins Moksha - 16,0
    [Uralic] Livonians - 15,1
    [Uralic] Komi-Permyaks - 14,5
    [Uralic] Udmurts Bessermen - 13,7
    [Slavic] Volga-Ural Russians - 13,2
    [Uralic] Lapps - 10,3
    [Uralic] Mari - 7,6
    [Turkic] Chuvash - 4,7
    [Turkic] Tatars - 4,5
    [Uralic] Mansi - 2,7
    [Uralic] Khanty - 2,2
    [Turkic] Bashkirs - 0,6

    Source:
    https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/sta...ych-w-tabeli-2

    Google-translation: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...=1#post4309348

    I added together "jasne blond" + "blond" + "ciemne blond".

    ====================================

    Geographical locations of populations used in that analysis:

    https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/ima...wie/sample.jpg



    ====================================

    Edit: I translated captions in the table from Polish to English:


    Which Curonians? Latvians that nowadays live along the Curonian Lagoon? Curonians as in Kursenieki?

    Curonian Baltic tribe is extinct for some time, just as their specific identity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Which Curonians? Latvians that nowadays live along the Curonian Lagoon? Curonians as in Kursenieki?

    Curonian Baltic tribe is extinct for some time, just as their specific identity.
    Yes Kursenieki from Curonian Spit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursenieki
    Russian anthropologists were able to check them in '50 before they complete expulsion to Germany. Now they are extinct as spearate group, just mixed with Germans in Germany.
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    Well according to my dad I look ruddy and reddish like men, women and children of west, and not like a REAL white man such as my dad himself. That is my daddehs take on racial matters
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty74 View Post
    Curonians=native Memellanders correct? Or sorta?
    Kind of, they were from the Curonian Spit. Check their distribution in the map below:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curonian_Spit

    Northern part of the Curonian spit belonged to Memelland (shown as Lithuanian here):





    ^^^ This map shows historical regions located within present-day Kaliningrad Oblast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Which Curonians? Latvians that nowadays live along the Curonian Lagoon? Curonians as in Kursenieki?
    Kursenieki. But they were descended from Curonian immigrants from Latvia.
    "We are so focused on our search for truth, we fail to consider how few actually want us to find it. But it is always there, whether we see it or not, whether we choose to or not. The truth doesn't care about our needs or wants. It doesn't care about our governments, our ideologies, our religions. It will lie in wait for all time."

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