What haplogroup did Abraham belong to?

[Sacrificed Ram]

Noone never said, he was Chaldean.
You are arguing with your own imaginations.
But Chaldeans obviously existed at that time
and if they have something to do with the
Arpachshad, then he was. But the text does
not say it, neither claims. Being from the city
Ur Kaśdim, doesn;t mean being a Chaldean.

Christian Bibles translated Kaśdim as Chaldea til 1950... How will we trust in these translators...

[Rethel]

akin to Arian and Plutarch?

Do you even know, what fables they were spreading and believing?

No? so stop talking about things, you do not know.

Bible is allready proven prophetically and historically accurate.
Even your historians, who belive in all the nonsensical stuff as you, belive that Abraham existed.

So, what is your point?
Are you on your own a historical genius, that you know, what is truth and
what is not, or you just blindly belive some guy, and distrust other historians?

[Dibran]

He was most probably J1. J2 would be the 2nd, and E1b the third possibility. Definitely not I1 or any other fantasy people concoct. In some texts(despite misleading translations) it refers(in the Quran for instance) to Jacob and his sons, including Joseph, as BADOU, BEDOU or bedouins. Bedoiuns have Jews, Muslims and Christians. The dominating haplogroups among Bedouins is J1 and J2. I think J2 moreso for the Jews, and J1 more for the Arabs. For example, J2 cultures were associated with Bull Worship. The golden calf being the centerpiece of some of the bani israel with Moses. J2(maybe not all) J1, and E1b are all intertwined with the tribes of bani israel and the arabs. These dominant haplos are probably in part resulted of the scattered bani israel. Though I am personally of the theory Abraham was E1b, the arabs chiefly J1 and bani israel chiefly J2, cousins from a common J ancestor.

There were some theories claiming illyrians practiced circumcision(I swear I forget where I read this so take with a grain of salt), but considering proto-illyrians are J2, if the theory of the custom holds weight, it could explain a partial connection to splintered bani israel that became indo europeanized on their exile.

[Teucer]

Do you even know, what fables they were spreading and believing?

No? so stop talking about things, you do not know.

Bible is allready proven prophetically and historically accurate.
Even your historians, who belive in all the nonsensical stuff as you, belive that Abraham existed.

So, what is your point?
Are you on your own a historical genius, that you know, what is truth and
what is not, or you just blindly belive some guy, and distrust other historians?

First of all, the same charge you make against me I can make against you. You weren't there either, you just believe it because you want to.

Second, whatever 'prophecies' you think the Bible had revealed to later come true is entirely subjective. You can extrapolate whatever you want from the these 'prophecies'. They are open to interpretation because of how esoterically they are written. Using 'prophecies' as justification for the validity of the Bible doesn't even warrant consideration.

Third, how is the Bible historically accurate? Because it tells you about cities that still exist? Marvel comics are based in New York City. Does that make Spiderman true too?

Lastly, I believe what historians say over your 'holy' book because unlike it they CAN find evidence for what they say.

Which historians corroborate the existence of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob?

[lyakh]

I would not exclude the possibility that biblical Abraham has in fact haplogroup E-V13, although it appears that the expansion of V13 occurred in Europe. Why subbranch of CTS1273 - E-S7461 with mutations Y19357 and A8612 was found in Saudi Arabia and Lebanon? E-S7461* was found in Switzerland.

About half of J1 specimens in YFull belong to the branch Y5322, which has estimated TMRCA of 2200 ybp. Vast majority of Y5322 appears to be from Arab countries. So Y5322 is not so good candidate for being the haplogroup of Abraham.

[SkyBurn]

Probably the same haplogroup as Bilbo Baggins, Khal Drogo and Emperor Palpatine.

[Kelmendasi]

I would not exclude the possibility that biblical Abraham has in fact haplogroup E-V13, although it appears that the expansion of V13 occurred in Europe. Why subbranch of CTS1273 - E-S7461 with mutations Y19357 and A8612 was found in Saudi Arabia and Lebanon? E-S7461* was found in Switzerland.

About half of J1 specimens in YFull belong to the branch Y5322, which has estimated TMRCA of 2200 ybp. Vast majority of Y5322 appears to be from Arab countries. So Y5322 is not so good candidate for being the haplogroup of Abraham.

V13 has no link with the groups from the Middle East apart from some due to migration from Europe, the dominant E1b1b there is M123 so its more logical for him to have been M123. J1-Z2313 has an expansion of 5500 ybp and among Semitic and proto-Semitic groups

[lyakh]

Is it possible that Abraham had haplogroup J-Y3088, although its TMRCA is estimated by YFull as 2900 ybp? In YFull there are two samples of J-Y3088* and three additional sublineages: FGC17491, ZS2458 and Y5400.

My another propositions are J-Z2313 (I do not believe in TMRCA of 5800 ybp) and J-Z1884 (I do not believe in TMRCA of 4600 ybp).

Here J1-ZS227 (aka Y3081) is mentioned as a Jewish clade. J1-Z18271 is named as "Y-Chromosomal Aaron". It's formation time is listed as 2750 or 2625 years (if it is in fact Aaron's lineage it would be some centuries older). Z18271 is a SNP on the same level as Y3088 (there are also 15 other SNPs on that level). So it appears that Y3088 may be the haplogroup of Abraham... id:ERS256773 from Italy (Cagliari), id:HG01571 from Peru, id:YF11139 from Portugal (Viseu), id:YF01553 and id:ERR1395620 from Iraq may be remnants of (lost) tribes of Israel.

[lyakh]

From J1 clades clade YSC234 (Z2329) appears to be the best candidate for Abraham haplogroup. On that page: http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree we have very large tree of haplogroup J-M267. One of descendants of YSC234 are L858 (whose descendant is FGC11) and ZS241. There are 12 SNPs at ZS241 level (a sublineage of YSC234), 19 at ZS222 level and 8 at Z18271 level. I think that Z18271 may be much older than 2623 ybp (age mentioned in Genogenea tree). I suppose that it has about 3800 ybp and its expansion is associated with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel).

One of Z18271 holders (1kGP#HG01571, http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=1945) has 36 SNPs below Z18271 node. He has ZS237 mutation (and Z18291). 34(!) SNPs appear to be private so far (2 from them are unstable and 8 have low quality). Second sublineage of ZS237 has much less SNPs (18 (FTDNA #N65836) and 17 (FTDNA #N24493) below ZS237 node), both of its members are from Italy (Calabria: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults). I still think that the formation time of ZS237 subclade may be about 3600 ybp (not 2367, as the information on the Genogenea's tree suggests). It may be the haplogroup of one of early Jacob's descendants (maybe a grandson).

S12192 is quite large sublineage of Z18271 with 13 SNPs at S12192 level. FTDNA #70628 has 9 SNPs below S12192 level, FTDNA #207808 - 6, FTDNA #448485 - 9 (these three people share 4 SNPs: ZS2375, ZS2376, ZS2378 and ZS2374). FTDNA #267446 does not share these 4 SNPs and has 9 SNPs below S12192 level. Another sublineage of S12192 has 4 shared SNPs: BY68, Z18280, Z18281, Z18282. FTDNA #N62223 has 6 SNPs below BY68 level. FGC9941, Z18283 are SNPs from another sublineage of BY68. FTDNA #347278 has 6 SNPs below FGC9941 level, FTDNA#401989 has 3, FTDNA #384654 - 10, FTDNA #387145 - 12(!), FTDNA #48939 - 3, FTDNA #121244 - 3, FTDNA #271580 - 7.

FTDNA#65859 has 15 SNPs below Z18271 level, FTDNA #285280 has 14. Both share 7 SNPs: Z18290, BY67, ZS2387, Z18286-Z18289 (from Z18286 to Z18289 - Z18286, Z18287, Z18288, Z18289). FTDNA #221995 also shares these 7 SNPs and has 6 additional ones. FTDNA #161627 forms a distinct sublineage of Z18271 and has 19 SNPs below Z18271 level. Fifth sublineage of Z18271 is ZS2434, FTDNA #52384 and PF2015#806 belongs to it. First has 23 SNPs below Z18271 level, second - also 23 SNPs.

Number of SNPs below Z18271 level varies quite a lot, from 13 for FTDNA #221995 to 36 for 1kGP#HG01571.

I suppose that Z18271 is the lineage of Jacob, Z222 - the lineage of Isaac and ZS241 is a lineage of Abraham (while I suppose that FGC4745 and L858 are also descendants of Abraham). From FGC4745 lineage FTDNA #305937 has 39 SNPs below FGC4745 level, FTDNA #M10564 has 40 and FTDNA #M9223 has 68. Both FTDNA #M10564 and FTDNA #M9223 share 8 SNPs from ZS10110 to ZS10117, but one of them has 0(!) SNPs below ZS10110 while another has 28(!). I think that is the proof of the possibility that in one generation very much SNP mutation can occur.

FTDNA #N112500 is ZS222+ Z18271- and has 25 SNPs below ZS222 level. I suppose that he may be a descendant of Esau.

FTDNA #282721 is ZS241+ ZS222- and has 32 SNPs below ZS241 level, its "sibling" is FTDNA #154921 who has 35 SNPs below ZS241 level. I suppose that they may be descendants of Abraham and Keturah.

Here is FTDNA page with haplotypes of ZS241+ individuals: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults. It can be noticed that there are relatively large number of participants with S12192 mutation.

L858 and FGC4745 may be both descendants of Ishmael.

On that page: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults FGC8712+, ZS2102+ lineage is named "Isaac lineage", but it looks unlikely that it is in fact the lineage of Isaac. STR distances between ZS2102+ members are small (about 6 - 7 mutations at 67 SNPs comparison). FTDNA #155666 has only 3 SNPs below ZS2102 level and FTDNA #75516 has 12 SNPs below ZS2102 level. At ZS2102 level there are 22 SNPs. FGC8712 is a downstream of FGC11 (and FGC12 and FGC1723).

[lyakh]

TMRCA of YSC234 (Z2329) (ancestor of ZS241) is estimated on Genogenea tree as 5796 ybp (I do not believe in such dating). TMRCA of ZS241 is estimated as 4878 ybp (I also do not believe in it). There are 12 SNPs at ZS241 level. TMRCA of ZS222 is estimated as 3543 ybp, i think that it is slightly older. There are 19 SNPs at ZS222 level (two of which have no coverage and three have poor coverage). There are 8 SNPs at Z18271 level (five of which have poor coverage). TMRCA of Z18271 is estimated as 2623 ybp. There are 39 SNPs between the expansion of Z18271 and YSC234.

Z18271 expands quite suddenly! On Genogenea tree there are 5 branches of Z18271. S12192 is the most common one, although it has a bottleneck of 13 SNPs at S12192 level. There are 3 sublineages of S12192: BY68 (the largest one), ZS2375 and ZS4097 (one example). TMRCA of S12192 is estimated as 1258 ybp, but I think that it should be about two times older if Z18271 is the Jacob's haplogroup. FTDNA#387145 has 18 SNPs below S12192 level. FTDNA#384654 has 16 SNPs below S12192 level. It suggests that the age of S12192 may be much older than it seems from arithmetical means of numbers of SNPs in individual branches. FTDNA#401989 has only 9 SNPs below S12192 level, FTDNA#347278 - 12, FTDNA#48939 - 9, FTDNA#121244 - 10, FTDNA#271580 - 13. FTDNA#N62223 has 10 SNPs below S12192 level. It is interesting why the bottleneck associated with S12192 lineage did occur. There are 12 S12192 FTDNA samples and 9 Z18271+ S12192- FTDNA samples on Genogenea's tree. Three members of Z18290 subclade have relatively low number of SNPs below Z18271 (FTDNA#221995 has 13 SNPs below Z18271, FTDNA#65859 - 15 and FTDNA#285280 - 14).

FTDNA#N112500, who is ZS222+ Z18271-, has 25 SNPs below ZS222 level. He has 31 SNPs between the divergence from Z18271 lineage (to which he does not belong) and YSC234 level. FTDNA#282721 is ZS241+ ZS222- and has 32 SNPs below ZS241 level. FTDNA#154921 is also ZS241+ ZS222- and has 34 SNPs below ZS241 level. FTDNA#221995 has 40 SNPs below ZS241 level (19 on ZS222 level, 8 on Z18271 and 13 below Z18271 level) and 52 SNPs below YSC234, which is ancestor of Z241. 1kGP#HG01571 has 36 SNPs below Z18271 level and 39 SNPs between YSC234 level and divergence from other Z18271 lineages.

It seems from the number of SNPs that Z18271 expanded about 2500 - 3000 ybp, but if it is the lineage of Jacob, it would expand about 3700 - 3800 ybp. Maybe S12192 is the Aaron's lineage (although it appears very unlikely from the SNP data)?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y3081/ - this lineage in YFull appears to be the counterpart of ZS241 from Genogenea's tree. There
are 13 SNPs at Y3081 level, 6 SNPs at S20075 level and 16 SNPs at Y3088 level. There are 35 SNPs between divergence of Y3081 from Z2313 lineage and expansion of Y3088. TMRCA of Z2313 is estimated by YFull as 5800 ybp (I do not believe in it). TMRCA of Y3088 is estimated as 2900 ybp (if it is the lineage of Israel, it has to be nearly 1000 years older).