Split: Christian vs. Pagan heroism

[Curtis24]

:mmmm:

I thought it was pretty well established that the majority of Western European genetic stock was pre-IE. The aR1ans didn't physically replace or outbreed the BaR1barians; the further from the urheimat you get, the more a case of linguistic/cultural diffusion it is.

Yes, but the diffusion wasn't peaceful; the so-called ARyans did invade, but, as you say, they didn't kill off or replace the natives.

[Psychonaut]

Yes, but the diffusion wasn't peaceful; the so-called ARyans did invade, but, as you say, they didn't kill off or replace the natives.

Perhaps, but by the time IE stuff spread to the Atlantic coast, those doing the spreading were not the descendants of the PIE folks—which is why almost all of the R1a in places like Ireland and Iberia is from relatively (last couple millennia) transplants.

[Wyn]

Indo-Europeans reduced these dirt-eating moon-worshippers to their proper place.

I'm perplexed by your inclusion of 'moon-worshippers', and am forced to ask what, for you as a Germanic heathen, is so awful about being a moon-worshipper? How is worshipping the moon worse than worshipping anything else?

[Psychonaut]

I'm perplexed by your inclusion of 'moon-worshippers', and am forced to ask what, for you as a Germanic heathen, is so awful about being a moon-worshipper? How is worshipping the moon worse than worshipping anything else?

Different strokes for different folks?

The Männerbund I once belonged to was as much of a lunar cult as it was a cult of the Wolf God.

[Murphy]

Osweo petty much replied for me, quite well I might add.

[Wyn]

Different strokes for different folks?

Obviously. But the inclusion of it in that sentence implied that it was something that he (again, this is in the context of him being a Germanic heathen) found undesirable and worthy of his derision.

[Ibericus]

:mmmm:

I thought it was pretty well established that the majority of Western European genetic stock was pre-IE. The aR1ans didn't physically replace or outbreed the BaR1barians; the further from the urheimat you get, the more a case of linguistic/cultural diffusion it is.

Outdated theory. R1b is not pre-IE. Majority of pre-IE were hg I :

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/i...8ECECA.ambra02

[Treffie]

What pre-Indo-European ancestors? We have none! The Indo-European peoples established complete dominance over the continent and its peoples, and even if the natives were bred into the Indo-European culture, they were utterly assimilated, as any anthropologist will be happy to tell you.

Wolfgang Haak et al would think differently. His team analysed 7,500 year old mtDNA which made them conclude that there is much evidence to support that today's Europeans descend as far back as the Paleolithic.

[whirlwind]

You can group the Arthurian Mythos as transitional too. Mallory's shows the Celtic roots a bit less but the sagas of Chrétien de Troyes, Gottfried von Strassburg, and especially Wolfram von Eschenbach are more on the order of Christian tinged Pagan tales than Pagan tinged Christian ones.

That's very true.
And though this is somewhat unrelated, Grimm's fairytales received quite the Christian white-wash when collected. A shame, really. Even the original German versions have awkwardly inserted mentions of God.

[Ibericus]

Wolfgang Haak et al would think differently. His team analysed 7,500 year old mtDNA which made them conclude that there is much evidence to support that today's Europeans descend as far back as the Paleolithic.

In the maternal lines yes.