Ancient Northern Italic gedmatch samples

[de Burgh II]

Remedello culture

The Remedello culture (Italian Cultura di Remedello) developed during the Copper Age (3rd millennium BC) in Northern Italy, particularly in the area of the Po valley. The name comes from the town of Remedello (Brescia) where several burials were discovered in the late 19th century.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remedello_culture

Allensoft et al. (2015) Supplementary information. (p. 13 out of 46)



https://www.nature.com/article-asset...re14507-s1.pdf

More information on Remedello sample(s):


http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html


Remedello RISE487 (3483-3107 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1 - GEDmatch kit T699825

Eurogenes k15:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 54.89
2 Atlantic 42.42
3 Baltic 2.54
4 North_Sea 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 24.7
2 French_Basque 30.85
3 Spanish_Aragon 34.13
4 Southwest_French 34.24
5 Spanish_Andalucia 34.73
6 Spanish_Cantabria 34.76
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 35.2
8 Spanish_Valencia 35.9
9 Spanish_Extremadura 38.18
10 Spanish_Murcia 38.32
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 38.33
12 Spanish_Cataluna 38.94
13 Portuguese 39.16
14 Spanish_Galicia 40.15
15 North_Italian 40.25
16 Tuscan 43.94
17 French 46.28
18 West_Sicilian 47.4
19 Greek 48.58
20 Mozabite_Berber 49.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.2% Sardinian + 34.8% French_Basque @ 21.77
2 82.6% Sardinian + 17.4% Southwest_French @ 24.16
3 83.8% Sardinian + 16.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 24.26
4 86.4% Sardinian + 13.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 24.39

Eurogenes ANE k7:
Population
ANE -
ASE -
WHG-UHG 71.36
East_Eurasian -
West_African 0.26
East_African -
ENF 28.37

Remedello RISE489 (2908-2578 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1a - GEDmatch kit T135721

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 55.26
2 Atlantic 32.55
3 North_Sea 6.21
4 East_Med 5.98


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sardinian @ 18.143852
2 Spanish_Andalucia @ 34.798351
3 Spanish_Aragon @ 34.973175
4 French_Basque @ 35.132645
5 Spanish_Cantabria @ 35.159615
6 Southwest_French @ 35.478748
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 35.728123
8 Spanish_Valencia @ 36.433784
9 Spanish_Extremadura @ 37.866299
10 Spanish_Murcia @ 38.266247
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 38.626358
12 Portuguese @ 38.635635
13 Spanish_Cataluna @ 39.196629
14 North_Italian @ 39.390873
15 Spanish_Galicia @ 39.567963
16 Tuscan @ 43.229115
17 West_Sicilian @ 47.228046
18 French @ 47.378315
19 Mozabite_Berber @ 47.497490
20 Moroccan @ 48.484615

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Sardinian +50% Sardinian @ 18.143852


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sardinian +25% Sardinian +25% Sardinian @ 18.143852


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian @ 16.660944
2 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian @ 18.143852
3 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Southwest_French @ 18.780643
4 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Spanish_Aragon @ 18.842245

Eurogenes ANE k7:
Population
ANE -
ASE -
WHG-UHG 65.22
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African -
ENF 34.78

Remedello RISE486 (2134-1773 BC) - Y-DNA I2a1a1a - GEDmatch kit T319214
K15:
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 45.54
2 Atlantic 30.69
3 East_Med 9.48
4 Baltic 6.11
5 Red_Sea 5.08
6 North_Sea 1.76
7 Sub-Saharan 1.34


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sardinian @ 13.900849
2 Spanish_Andalucia @ 27.036188
3 Spanish_Aragon @ 28.276064
4 Southwest_French @ 28.700207
5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 28.747141
6 Spanish_Cantabria @ 28.931341
7 Spanish_Valencia @ 29.075689
8 Spanish_Extremadura @ 30.629692
9 French_Basque @ 30.671434
10 North_Italian @ 31.124207
11 Spanish_Murcia @ 31.125616
12 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 31.372900
13 Portuguese @ 31.797007
14 Spanish_Cataluna @ 32.490398
15 Spanish_Galicia @ 32.924294
16 Tuscan @ 34.200768
17 Mozabite_Berber @ 37.460499
18 West_Sicilian @ 37.626236
19 Moroccan @ 38.718155
20 Greek @ 39.116592

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Sardinian +50% Sardinian @ 13.900849


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sardinian +25% Sardinian +25% Southwest_French @ 11.915246


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 French_Basque + Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian @ 10.110456
2 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Southwest_French @ 11.915246
3 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Spanish_Aragon @ 12.130910
4 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 12.473613
5 Sardinian + Sardinian + Sardinian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 12.503903

Eurogenes ANE k7:

Population
ANE -
ASE -
WHG-UHG 57.82
East_Eurasian -
West_African -
East_African 2.99
ENF 39.19

[Hamlet]

Interesting, perhaps this is naivety but I would have thought the ancient N. Italians would have been Celts - apparently not!

[GiCa]

Sardinian strikes again!

[Percivalle]

But it's not Italic, it's an EEF. Remedello culture is an EEF culture with ties to Otzi. Unfortunately we don't have any kind of Italic genome from Italy yet. There is Bell Beaker from Parma who hasn't been released yet.

Interesting, perhaps this is naivety but I would have thought the ancient N. Italians would have been Celts - apparently not!

But this sample is not an Italic and neither a Celt, it's known that he is an EEF.

I forgot that even the basic knowledge in this forum is often lacking.

[GiCa]

Interesting, perhaps this is naivety but I would have thought the ancient N. Italians would have been Celts - apparently not!

Celts arrived later maybe.

Their homeland is in Switzerland. Pretty near to northern Italy
An italic tribes were italic therefore, had a ancient connection to celts due to te italo-Celtic people meaning at even more ancient times Italics and celts were the same thing inhabitating central europe

[de Burgh II]

Interesting, perhaps this is naivety but I would have thought the ancient N. Italians would have been Celts - apparently not!

I would say that Celts and Germanics and some Italic tribes were more shifted towards being Steppe-shifted peoples who brought forth the Indo-European linguistic family until much later coinciding with the Late Neolithic to Early Bronze Age who mixed with pre/non-Indo-European peoples who were mostly neolithic farmer and WHG (Western Hunter-Gatherer) ancestry. Nevertheless, these pre-Indo-European Western and Southern European populations are very "southern-shifted" in the sense closest to Sardinians who are a good proxy genetically as a modern-day preserved population without any Steppe admixture.

The continental Celts have their origins centered more so in Central-Eastern Europe. Germanics in Northern Europe and Slavs/Balts in Eastern-Northeastern Europe, etc. Who seemed very "Steppe-shifted" during this time until its spread to Western/Southern/Southwestern Europeans during the Bronze Age. Hence, prehistoric Britons/Gaels/Italics/French/Iberians seem more "Neolithic-shifted" compared to Northern, Central and Eastern Europeans during this time.

[Oddone]

I forgot that even the basic knowledge in this forum is often lacking.

It's not always lack of knowledge but it's more lack of pussy and self-esteem. More the users are uncool, more they troll in this forum.

[Percivalle]

The continental Celts have their origins centered more so in Central-Eastern Europe. Germanics in Northern Europe and Slavs/Balts in Eastern-Northeastern Europe, etc. Who seemed very "Steppe-shifted" during this time until its spread to Western/Southern/Southwestern Europeans during the Bronze Age. Hence, prehistoric Britons/Gaels/Italics/French/Iberians seem more "Neolithic-shifted" compared to Northern, Central and Eastern Europeans during this time.

It's even more simple, they all are more Neolithic-shifted because Remedello samples are not Italic or Celt or what you want. It's like saying that Ballynahatty is an Irish Celt.

Anyway Remedello is somewhat similar to Ballynahatty, and all aren't exactly the same of modern-day Sardinians, but definitely more Basque-shifted. Ballynahatty seems even a bit closer to Sardinians though than the other two.

Remedello 1
65.2% Sardinian + 34.8% French_Basque @ 21.77

Remedello 2
82.8% Sardinian + 17.2% French_Basque @ 14.5


Ballynahatty
61.4% Sardinian + 38.6% French_Basque @ 6.44


Irish (Ballynahatty, Co. Down):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Med 43.2
2 Atlantic 32.67
3 North_Sea 8.68
4 East_Med 6.79
5 Red_Sea 3.22
6 Baltic 2.84
7 Northeast_African 1.36
8 Sub-Saharan 0.81
9 Southeast_Asian 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sardinian 14.46
2 Spanish_Andalucia 20.06
3 Spanish_Aragon 20.23
4 Spanish_Cantabria 20.49
5 Southwest_French 20.84
6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 20.86
7 French_Basque 21.56
8 Spanish_Valencia 21.58
9 Spanish_Extremadura 22.8
10 Spanish_Murcia 23.18
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 23.36
12 Portuguese 23.64
13 Spanish_Cataluna 24.17
14 Spanish_Galicia 24.56
15 North_Italian 24.75
16 Tuscan 28.59
17 French 31.7
18 West_Sicilian 32.56
19 Greek 34.38
20 Italian_Abruzzo 34.65

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.4% Sardinian + 38.6% French_Basque @ 6.44
2 63% Sardinian + 37% Southwest_French @ 9.54
3 62.2% Sardinian + 37.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 9.58
4 62.8% Sardinian + 37.2% Spanish_Cantabria @ 9.77
5 63.9% Sardinian + 36.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 10.12
6 65.7% Sardinian + 34.3% Spanish_Valencia @ 10.65
7 63.6% Sardinian + 36.4% Spanish_Andalucia @ 10.75
8 68.7% Sardinian + 31.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 10.99
9 70.2% Sardinian + 29.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 11.25
10 69.2% Sardinian + 30.8% Spanish_Murcia @ 11.31
11 68.9% Sardinian + 31.1% Spanish_Extremadura @ 11.37
12 82.1% Sardinian + 17.9% Irish @ 11.44
13 82.4% Sardinian + 17.6% West_Scottish @ 11.49
14 80.7% Sardinian + 19.3% Southwest_English @ 11.51
15 81.6% Sardinian + 18.4% Southeast_English @ 11.55
16 82.9% Sardinian + 17.1% Orcadian @ 11.62
17 70.7% Sardinian + 29.3% Portuguese @ 11.68
18 72.2% Sardinian + 27.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 11.86
19 83.6% Sardinian + 16.4% Danish @ 11.91
20 80.6% Sardinian + 19.4% South_Dutch @ 11.92

[Peterski]

Obviously they were Non-IE. They did not speak Italic languages.

[Peterski]

Sample ID / dating / Y-DNA haplo / GEDmatch kit / Single Pop. Sharing in Eurogenes K15:

RISE487 / 3483-3107 BC / I2a1a1 / T699825 / Sardinian
RISE489 / 2908-2578 BC / I2a1a1a / T135721 / Sardinian
RISE486 / 2134-1773 BC / I2a1a1a / T319214 / Sardinian

Check their admixtures in Eurogenes K36 by the way.