Proto-Slavs: I1b

[safinator]

I believe this was the haplogroup of the Sarmatians.

[Frederick]

I dont believe in haplogroups beeing "the" haplogroup of ancient people.

"Smith" is ONE english name. I dont think "Smith" is THE name of the ancient English.

And Haplogroups are nothing but surnames.

[Slav]

It was of one variety, 391 = 11. In this spread it reached,
among others, the proto-slavs who according to many sources had their earliest homeland in the Pripet marshes area which I believe are on the Poland/Ukraine/Byelarus border area. Among the proto-slavs a new variety with 391 = 10 was founded and thrived and became competitive with the original 391 = 11 in population. Only in the 5th and 6th century A.D. or so did the Slavs really start to expand in eastern Europe to populate the many places we find them today; westward as far as present-day Eastern Germany, eastward into Russia, and southwestward into the Balkans, Czechoslovakia, etc.

...
The areas of greatest percentage of 391 = 10 variety will be close to the home area up in Poland/Ukraine/Byelarus where it was born.

Down in the Balkans it would seem that where a lot of R1a was brought in by the slavs, I should expect more percentage of the 391 = 10 I1b brought in by the slavs according to this hypothesis.

Ken Nordtvedt

[Duke]

Ken Nordtvedt

... is full of shit.


Slavs are I-E people

[Kanuni]

... is full of shit.


Slavs are I-E people

IE people where not composed solely of R1a or R1b.

[Duke]

IE people where not composed solely of R1a or R1b.

No, they were R1a, R1b came from anatolia.

R1a brought I-E languages which are spoken in Europe today, so they also brought Slavic one.
Example of non I-E language that is connected with R1b is Basque.
This is easily seen with genetic trace left from India to Europe, thus Indo-European.
Haplogroup I is not found outside of Europe, so it cant be I-E

[Kanuni]

No, they were R1a, R1b came from anatolia.

R1a brought I-E languages which are spoken in Europe today, so they also brought Slavic one.
Example of non I-E language that is connected with R1b is Basque.
This is easily seen with genetic trace left from India to Europe, thus Indo-European.
Haplogroup I is not found outside of Europe, so it cant be I-E

Out of context post.

I2a2 was Indo-Europeanized in East Europe earlier and when Slavs settled in Balkans they were largely R1a+I2a2 with some neolithic haplogroups like EV13 in minority.

[Duke]

Out of context post.

I2a2 was Indo-Europeanized in East Europe earlier and when Slavs settled in Balkans they were largely R1a+I2a2 with some neolithic haplogroups like EV13 in minority.

Thats pushing it, because I2b is rare in northern Slavs, while its dominant in south ones.

Lets say that 10-20 million people( which would be minimum) moved into balkans in some massive migration, which is also preposterous idea, but then they should have identical picture with northen ones, or northern ones are not Slavs if that premise was true.

I think E came to balkans with Greeks, a first wave in antic times, then inter-Byzantium movement of populace, and rest of it with Ottomans

[safinator]

Thats pushing it, because I2b is rare in northern Slavs, while its dominant in south ones.

Lets say that 10-20 million people( which would be minimum) moved into balkans in some massive migration, which is also preposterous idea, but then they should have identical picture with northen ones, or northern ones are not Slavs if that premise was true.

I think E came to balkans with Greeks, a first wave in antic times, then inter-Byzantium movement of populace, and rest of it with Ottomans

I2a2 center of diversity is in Northern Romania/Southwestern Ukraine so most likely originated there.
About E-V13 it must have likely been there from ancient times since it's mostly Paleobalkanic.

[Slav]

I2a was spread out of the territory of Ukraine (Polesie). This fact correlates with Polesian (and total Ukrainian) concetration.
I2a 20% among Ukrainians.

Ukrainians (1101)
R1a- 39,22
I2a- 20,41
E- 6,95

Balanovsky, Pshenichnov et others.

By the way, Polesie was epicentre of Slavonic ethnogenesis.