I2a-Din in 900s AD Poland

[Peterski]

By the way some changes are going to happen when it comes to I2a-Din.

Here is what lgmayka (who is Polish and belongs to I2a-Din) wrote lately:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...265#post253265

I can reasonably state that I know no more about my patrilineage than I did 11 years ago, when Ken Nordtvedt classified me as I2a-Dinaric.

The next YFull haplotree will continue to classify me as a singleton of the I2a-Dinaric clade, which will presumably be renamed I-YP189 or some such. New entry YF09727 [from France] splits the old I-CTS10228 level: He tested negative for at least 6 of the SNPs currently listed as tree-equivalent to CTS10228. Thus, his patrilineage is a much earlier offshoot and not part of the I2a-Dinaric expansion.

Cosmoo:

I2a1b-Din did not participate in Slavic ethnogenesis, therefore it is not "as Slavic as", for example, R1a-M458/Z280.

How can you possibly know this?

[catgeorge]

I still don't understand why posters freak out over J so much. I + J is like saying R1a and R1b is it not?

[Peterski]

"I don't know if you saw it on anthrogenica, but newly tested American with origin from Alsace (with earlier origin in Lower Rhine area) is I2a1b-Din but ancestral to all downstream clades, and he effectivly pushes TMRCA of I2a1b-Din as much as a few thousand years, with its origin much more westwards than originally thought."

Yes, nobody expected that I2a-Din originated in North America.*

One of very basal R1b subclades (I don't remember which) has been found only in Puerto Rico.

Probably all of this branch of R1b originates from Puerto Rico...

*Except for Grab the Gauge, he predicted that Silvids are ancestors of Dinarids.

newly tested American with origin from Alsace (with earlier origin in Lower Rhine area)

Origin from America, with origin from Alsace, with origin from Lower Rhine area, with ultimate origin from... ???

Only ancient DNA actually matters, and this guy is a good example why it is the case.

[cosmoo]

How can you possibly know this?

It is distributed in Slavic-speaking lands in an extremely inequal fashion, plus, Dinaric being a subclade of Disles, which is mostly found in NW Europe, plus Nordtvedt locating Dinaric TMRCA 2500 years ago in (then non-Slavic) Poland, also points away from it. Also, some other ancient DNA which you conveniently omitted.

Yes, nobody expected that I2a-Din originated in North America.*

You know very well what I meant.

Only ancient DNA actually matters, and this guy is a good example why it is the case.

Oh really? But when they discovered that Pole who was ancestral to most of Dinaric clades, then it was important? Then it was "WEWUZSLAVS" all over the place. Constant cherrypick.
And this guy effectively pushes back age of formation of Dinaric, no matter where he's from. And it is very, very unlikely that he has any male-line Slavic origin.

[Peterski]

Ancestors of this American lived in Lower Rhine area in 1700 AD (for example, I didn't check it, I'm just guessing).

But you have no idea, where did they live in 700 AD, or in 700 BC. This is why only ancient DNA is what matters.

[Tschaikisten]

how come the age of I2a2 Din subclade exactly coincides with the age of Bosnian Pyramids?

[Grishnack]

This pretty much settles it. I think we gotta reconsider the Romanian ethnogenesis.

[Peterski]

Oh really? But when they discovered that Pole who was ancestral to most of Dinaric clades, then it was important? Then it was "WEWUZSLAVS" all over the place.

Okay, but it was considered to be just a hint, not a definite proof.

Anyway, I2a-Din is much more common in Poland than in France.

And it is very, very unlikely that he has any male-line Slavic origin.

Who knows? There were Slavic slaves all over Western Eurasia and North Africa.

The Frankish Empire was very busy with attacking and enslaving Pagan Slavs.

[cosmoo]

Ancestors of this American lived in Lower Rhine area in 1700 AD (for example, I didn't check it, I'm just guessing).

But you have no idea, where did they live in 700 AD, or in 700 BC. This is why only ancient DNA is what matters.

Yeah, only because of lack of further evidence it's completely logical to assume they lived exactly in your fucking Pripyat marches.

Besides, even without this guy, you know very well why theory of I2a1b-Din participating in Slavic ethnogenesis doesn't work.

[cosmoo]

Anyway, I2a-Din is much more common in Poland than in France.

And R1b is much more common in France than in Ukraine. Yet situation was completely shifted few thousands of years earlier. Don't use reasoning of a 5 year old.