Portuguese Genes

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I know you aren't saying that but the article does state that Portuguese don't have Mediterranean origins. Which is silly because even if it were partially true it would still be partially untrue and therefore completely inaccurate.

The first\ancient inhabitants might not have been of Mediterranean origin. It does not mean that modern Portuguese inhabitants aren't.

[QUOTE=Sebastianus Rex;4494753]

I've never read such theory, I believe there's an equivocation there. Most scholars believe that Lusitanians inhabited the western Iberian Peninsula since the neolithic.

They later mixed and absorbed several waves of Celtic tribes migrations during the Hallstatt culture period/Iron Age (circa 800-600 BC), it is those Celtic tribes who are believed to have origin in the Alpine/Danubian region.



Lusitanians (who later mixed with Celts of the Hallstatt culture) ended up dominating most of the present Portuguese territory, don't know if all those ancient tribes shared a common origin. Without more crania evidence we enter the field of pure speculation.

There's no equivocation. The five\six Lusitanian inscriptions found seem to connect Lusitanian language with ancient Italic-Celtic languages. Some historians also believe that the closest relatives to the Lusitanians were the Lusones, who are also believed to have migrated to Iberia from where Switzerland is nowadays or even from Pannonia.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Some brief conclusions from the academic article "The inscription of Cabeço das Fráguas revisited. Lusitanian and Alteuropäisch populations in the West of the Iberian Peninsula" by Dr. Blanca María Prósper Dpto. de Filológia Clássica e IndoEuropeia - Univerdida de Salamanca.

Full PDF here: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...rian_Peninsula

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Map detailing most significant and frequent HLA haplotypes in Basques, Portuguese, Spaniards, and Algerians.



Neighbor-joining dendrograms showing relatedness between Iberian, North African, European, and other populations. Distances between populations were calculated by using HLA-A and -B (serology ) and DRB1, DQA1 and DQB1 (DNA sequence) frequencies. Allele frequencies of Spanish-Basques from Martõ Ânez-Laso and co-workers (1995); frequencies of Algerians from Arnaiz-Villena and co-workers (1995); other population data are from Imanishi and co-workers (1992b), except Portuguese who are used for the first time in this work. Phenotypic allele frequencies in Portuguese are: 1) HLA-A:mA1 (21); A2 (53); A3 (17); A23 (6); A24 (14); A25 (3); A26 (8); A11 (8); A28 (8); A29 (10); A30 (2); A31 (2); A32 (4); A33 (4). 2) HLA- B:mB51 (17); B52 (2); B53 (1); B7 (16); B8 (12); B44 (23); B45 (2); B13 (3); B14 (13); B62 (6); B57 (11); B58(4); B18 (6); B49 (12); B50 (0.4); B55 (2); B27 (5); B35 (22); B37 (4); B38 (5); B39 (4); B60 (5); B61(1) 3) HLA-DR:mDR1 (24); DR15 (16); DR16 (6); DR3 (21); DR4 (27); DR11 (18); DR12 (2); DR13 (23); DR14 (7); DR7 (32); DR8 (6); DR9 (1); DR10 (2)

[Bell Beaker]

To me the Portuguese are mostly/predom Mediterranean with a Celtic input on it and a rarer Nordic admixture which shows up from time to time in certain individuals.

«There is no unity of type in any of these seven Latin linguistic families. Among the Languedocian-Catalans we distinguish the presence of at least three races: Western or Cevenole, which prevails on the central table-lands of France, Littoral or Atlanto-Mediterranean, predominant in Provence and Catalonia; Ibero-insular, which we find in Angoumois as in Catalonia (see p. 329, and Map 2). In the same way we may perceive in the Italian group the existence of representatives of almost all the European races (except the Northern); we have only to recall the striking contrast between the Venetian, tall, chestnut coloured, brachycephalic, and the inhabitant of Southern Italy, short, dark, and dolichocephalic. It is among the Portuguese, perhaps, that we find the greatest unity of type; the majority of them belong to the Ibero-insular race, except in the north of the country, where we find intermixtures with the Western race, as among the Galicians of Spain.»


-Joseph Deniker


Genetics











https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Juz2VtBQjjiWQGFebZkJ2dldMTSRgkTuOHYIMsurq-Y/edit#gid=549110110~"]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=549110110~[/URL]

[Sebastianus Rex]

The first\ancient inhabitants might not have been of Mediterranean origin. It does not mean that modern Portuguese inhabitants aren't.

There's no equivocation. The five\six Lusitanian inscriptions found seem to connect Lusitanian language with ancient Italic-Celtic languages. Some historians also believe that the closest relatives to the Lusitanians were the Lusones, who are also believed to have migrated to Iberia from where Switzerland is nowadays or even from Pannonia.

There are many theories but not much factual evidence. Given that the Lusones were a people that migrated to Iberia during the later Bronze Age doesn't add up with the theory that the Lusitaneans might have been related to them if they were to be established in the Peninsula since the Neolithic. Or, if that theory was correct, it could mean that the Lusitaneans were another wave of migrants/invaders that mixed with the peoples previously established in the Peninsula.

Also doesn't add with "uniqueness of genes", or at least that couldn't be related to the original Lusitaneans.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Alteuropäisch is the term used by Hans Krahe (1964) for the language of the oldest reconstructed stratum of European hydronymy (river names) in Central and Western Europe. The character of these river names is pre-Indo-European (i.e., pre-Italic, pre-Germanic and pre-Celtic) and dated by Krahe to the 2nd millennium BC.



Old European hydronymic map for the root *Sal-, *Salm-.

Krahe writes in A1, chapter III, "Introducing preface" Number 2 that the old European hydronomy extended from Scandinavia to South Italy, from Western Europe including the British Isles to the Baltic countries. Of the three Mediterranean peninsulas, Italy was most completely included, whilst the Balkan Peninsula was only scarcely covered. He writes that what he presents for hydronomy also applies to mountains and ranges of mountains, and continues with "Karpaten" and "Karawanken", certainly within the Slavic settlement area, omitting the Bavarian/Austrian "Karwendel" though. This area is associated with the spread of the later "Western" Indo-European dialects, the Celtic, Italic, Germanic, Baltic, and Illyrian branches. Notably exempt is Greece.

Krahe located the geographical nucleus of this area as stretching from the Baltic across Western Poland and Germany to the Swiss plateau and the upper Danube north of the Alps, while he considered the Old European river names of southern France, Italy and Spain to be later imports, replacing "Aegean-Pelasgian" and Iberian substrates, corresponding to Italic, Celtic and Illyrian "invasions" from about 1300 BC.

[Jingle Bell]

[QUOTE=Sebastianus Rex;4494753]

I've never read such theory, I believe there's an equivocation there. Most scholars believe that Lusitanians inhabited the western Iberian Peninsula since the neolithic.

They later mixed and absorbed several waves of Celtic tribes migrations during the Hallstatt culture period/Iron Age (circa 800-600 BC), it is those Celtic tribes who are believed to have origin in the Alpine/Danubian region.



Lusitanians (who later mixed with Celts of the Hallstatt culture) ended up dominating most of the present Portuguese territory, don't know if all those ancient tribes shared a common origin. Without more crania evidence we enter the field of pure speculation.

Lusitans dont live in iberia since the neolithic, they were Indo-Europeans and Pre-Celtic most likely get in Iberia by the introducion of Bell Beaker culture of Central Europe (Maybe that explain why they speak a IE language but a non-celt language) in Copper Age, they also were heavily influenced by Gallaeci (Castro Culture), Turdetani and Tartessians, Samples from Roman Portugal (260 CE - 500 CE) shows that they were prob abt 27% - 33% Yamnaya and clusters with NE Iberian and Basques
with the reconquista repopulation of Central/South iberia its most prob that Portugueses are more prob descendants of both Castro Culture (Gallaeci), Lusitanis and Turdetani and others minors tribes rather than only Lusitans