View Poll Results: Do you consider Udmurt people as part of White race?

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  • Yes

    44 65.67%
  • No

    23 34.33%
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Thread: Udmurts, white or not?

  1. #91
    Alexandro
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    "White" to me is defined as being European and they seem to be Eurasian so no.

    They seem like an interesting people though, I suppose TA is good for learning about these ethnic groups you wouldn't know about otherwise.

  2. #92
    Waiting for Dragon Age Dreadwolf & Berserk Radimir's Avatar
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    Yes, because society at large would see them as White. 99% of the time, race is all about the appearance of the individual.
    Last edited by Radimir; 02-28-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by travv View Post
    Better than whites. They are almost as close to the Nenets as Mari people are.

    Proof.

    Spoiler!
    In G25, Udmurts are also almost as close to Nenetses as Maris:

    $ mkdir g25;printf %s\\n ai\ 1UrhcfNMLW0oMXIbHGUE60v2taCM7PFw1 aa\ 1F2rKEVtu8nWSm7qFhxPU6UESQNsmA-sl mi\ 1HYrDwxEXv82DvDLoq736pS5ZTGJA4dn5 ma\ 1wZr-UOve0KUKo_Qbgeo27m-CQncZWb8y|while read l m;do curl "drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=$m" -Lso g25/$l;done
    $ dist(){ awk -F, 'NR==FNR{for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)a[i]=$i;next}$1{s=0;for(i=2;i<=NF;i++)s+=($i-a[i])^2;if(s)print s^.5,$1}' "$2" "$1" |sort -n|awk '{printf"%.3f %s\n",$1,$2}'|sed s,^0,,;}
    $ printf %s\\n Bashkir Besermyan Chuvash Dolgan Estonian Finnish Finnish_East Ingrian Karelian Ket Khanty Komi Latvian Mansi Mari Mordovian Nenets Nganassan Russian_Kostroma Russian_Pinega Russian_Tver Saami Saami_Kola Selkup Tatar_Kazan Tatar_Mishar Tatar_Siberian Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye Udmurt Vepsian>/tmp/pop
    $ dist g25/ma <(grep Nenets g25/ma)|awk 'NR==FNR{a[$0];next}$2 in a' /tmp/pop -
    .033 Selkup
    .112 Khanty
    .114 Ket
    .125 Mansi
    .144 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
    .155 Dolgan
    .180 Nganassan
    .191 Tatar_Siberian
    .221 Bashkir
    .270 Mari
    .283 Saami
    .286 Udmurt
    .300 Besermyan
    .302 Chuvash
    .328 Tatar_Kazan
    .330 Saami_Kola
    .343 Komi
    .359 Tatar_Mishar
    .386 Russian_Pinega
    .396 Vepsian
    .399 Finnish_East
    .400 Karelian
    .405 Mordovian
    .409 Russian_Kostroma
    .414 Ingrian
    .414 Finnish
    .433 Russian_Tver
    .443 Estonian
    .455 Latvian

    However Maris and Chuvashes are far from everyone in G25:

    $ dist <(cat g25/[am]a) <(grep Mari g25/ma)|head -n16
    .056 Chuvash
    .082 Udmurt
    .088 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    .088 VK2020_NOR_North_VA_o1
    .092 Besermyan
    .095 Saami
    .104 RUS_Chalmny-Varre
    .114 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_MLBA_o
    .115 Bashkir
    .117 Tatar_Kazan
    .121 Saami_Kola
    .122 MNG_Pazyryk_EIA_6
    .125 Komi
    .126 MNG_Chandman_IA
    .127 RUS_Karasuk
    .127 KAZ_Alpamsa_MLBA_Alakul
    $ dist <(cat g25/[am]a) <(grep Chuvash g25/ma)|head -n16
    .048 Besermyan
    .049 Udmurt
    .056 Mari
    .064 Tatar_Kazan
    .069 FIN_Levanluhta_IA
    .071 Saami
    .072 RUS_Chalmny-Varre
    .073 Komi
    .077 Saami_Kola
    .086 VK2020_NOR_North_VA_o2
    .087 Tatar_Mishar
    .090 RUS_Mezhovskaya
    .092 Tatar_Lipka
    .096 MDA_Cimmerian
    .097 RUS_Tagar
    .097 VK2020_NOR_North_VA_o1
    Last edited by Komintasavalta; 02-28-2021 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #94
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    No, they have around 25% East Asian (a genetic term for all Mongoloids) ancestry on average which is too much. They have as much Mongoloid as the average Quadroon who is 25% Negroid or Castizo who is 25% Amerindian.

    If you consider Udmurts white, you have to consider Quadroons and Castizos as white as well. I see the Udmurts as Quapas (meaning someone who is 1/4 out of another race) aka Euro-leaning hapas.
    Last edited by Zanzibar; 06-20-2021 at 07:48 AM.

  5. #95
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    Gingers must be considered a new separate race. There may be gingers anywhere in the world and they have their own strict looks for some reason.

  6. #96
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    what is sure, that I will feel more comfortable with them than with extremely far west and east "Southern Europeans" (= excluding former Yugoslavia)

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSecret View Post
    Gingers must be considered a new separate race. There may be gingers anywhere in the world and they have their own strict looks for some reason.
    LOL, gingers are kind of persecuted in the UK probably because redheaded Brunns are associated with Irish nationalism or something.

  8. #98
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    Here is how much the average Udmurt score in terms of Mongoloid ancestry: around 25%. That's as much exotic admixture as someone who is Quadroon or Castizo.

    I read somewhere that the threshold for considering someone White is 10% non-Euro blood, maybe up to 15% as the upper limit, so they don't make the cut.

    Target: Udmurt
    Distance: 2.8122% / 0.02812222 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    46.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    25.0 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
    15.8 RUS_Afanasievo
    12.8 Baltic_EST_BA

    Krasnoyarsk_BA aka kra001 is an ancient Siberian population who represent the Mongoloid ancestry of Uralics the best. Closest mmodern pop to them is Nganassan.

    Here are the two most Mongoloid-shifted Udmurt individuals. Almost 30% East Asian. That's almost the same level as Mari who are approximately 32% Mong or more. Literally the opposite version of the Kyrgyz who are 30% Caucasoid.

    Target: Udmurt:153_R02C01
    Distance: 4.8419% / 0.04841895 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    50.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    27.8 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
    22.0 RUS_Afanasievo

    Target: Udmurt:udmurd8
    Distance: 3.2672% / 0.03267172 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    49.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
    28.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
    16.4 RUS_Afanasievo
    5.8 Baltic_EST_BA

    So I don't consider them white but mixed race Quapas aka 1/4 Asiatic, which is still part of the Hapa spectrum.
    Last edited by Zanzibar; 06-20-2021 at 09:58 AM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RN97 View Post
    How much is it though? Erzya only have around 7% and they're also uralic. Simply put. 7-10% = borderline, but white if mixed with a European. 10-20%= not really quite white, but can quickly whiten.
    The thing is that these groups along with their Siberian also have high amounts of European HG admixture, some of them even rivaling Serbs for example
    Udmurts have around 25% Mongoloid ancestry. Some are even almost 30% Mongoloid. That's literally as much exotic admixture as a Quadroon or Castizo.

    You might be right about the other stuff though.

  10. #100
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    Genetically no as they are 25% Mongoloid. However, they were put in Ireland, Scotland or even USA they would be perceived as a citizen of all the countries stated above.

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