Udmurts, white or not?

[Zanzibar]

I was hesitant to use Krasnoyarsk_BA because I assumed it was a heavily WSHG/EHG shifted sample but it seems to be predominantly or wholely east Eurasian while still providing excellent fits for the groups in question(Finns, Finnics, Uralics, and north Ruskies). Good call by you.

I thought I did answer those questions by confirming that your understanding of them was accurate but I will give a comprehensive answer now.

1. WSHG is different from ANE but has lots of ANE ancestry. It is somewhere along the cline between EHG and ANE with a small amount of East Asian ancestry as well. Karelia is basically EHG.

Target: RUS_Tyumen_HG
Distance: 8.2995% / 0.08299543
66.2 RUS_MA1
25.8 RUS_Karelia_HG
8.0 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

2. BMAC and Iran_N are closely related yes. BMAC descends mostly from Iran_N+WSHG+CHG+ANF. Or to put it another way, it is a product of the mixing of Eneolithic central Asians like Parkhai_En(Iran_N+CHG+WSHG+minor ANF) with incoming farmers from the west(ANF+Iran_N). This can be seen in the difference in how the two groups score:


Target: TKM_Parkhai_En
Distance: 3.2991% / 0.03299125
73.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.4 GEO_CHG
5.8 TUR_Barcin_N
3.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG

Target: UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA
Distance: 3.0528% / 0.03052807
64.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 TUR_Barcin_N
11.6 GEO_CHG
10.2 RUS_Tyumen_HG

3. Studies have revealed that Hindus have one of the highest ANE levels in the world and it cannot be explained solely through plain Iran_N and Indo-European steppe, hence it's been ascertained that substantial extra WSHG ancestry had to be inputted for ANE to be so high. It increases their steppe affinity.

Yep, Krasnoyarsk_BA seems to be fully East Eurasian (unless you count the ANE-related affinity which seems to be found in almost all Siberians including Nganasan) and closest to modern day Nganasans.
Thanks.

Oh well I still have some doubts so want to explain more as you seem to have better insights regarding these ancients than me.

1. I see. The highest amount of WSHG ancestry is found among modern Uralics like Khanty, Mansi, Selkup, Udmurt, Mari right? It looks like there are different ANE populations then and not only MA1 and Afontova Gora3? ANE pop that contribute to Native American is not the same one that contribute to South Asians, Caucasians and Euros?

2. Ah ok. Do BMAC have some Steppe ancestry themselves? Interesting, so there are two waves of Iran_N ancestry that create the BMAC? Are these farmers from the West the same group that also contribute to modern day South Asians including the Baloch/Brahui/Makrani? BMAC ancestry is maximized in modern day Baloch/Brahui/Makrani, Pashtun, Pamiri and Tajik?

3. By Hindus, are you referring to groups like Jatts, Rors, North Indian Brahmins? Oh Iran_N and Steppe has too low ANE to account for the high ANE among them then. How much WSHG do South Asians have though on average?

[Borealis]

Yep, Krasnoyarsk_BA seems to be fully East Eurasian (unless you count the ANE-related affinity which seems to be found in almost all Siberians including Nganasan) and closest to modern day Nganasans.
Thanks.

Oh well I still have some doubts so want to explain more as you seem to have better insights regarding these ancients than me.

1. I see. The highest amount of WSHG ancestry is found among modern Uralics like Khanty, Mansi, Selkup, Udmurt, Mari right? It looks like there are different ANE populations then and not only MA1 and Afontova Gora3? ANE pop that contribute to Native American is not the same one that contribute to South Asians, Caucasians and Euros?

2. Ah ok. Do BMAC have some Steppe ancestry themselves? Interesting, so there are two waves of Iran_N ancestry that create the BMAC? Are these farmers from the West the same group that also contribute to modern day South Asians including the Baloch/Brahui/Makrani? BMAC ancestry is maximized in modern day Baloch/Brahui/Makrani, Pashtun, Pamiri and Tajik?

3. By Hindus, are you referring to groups like Jatts, Rors, North Indian Brahmins? Oh Iran_N and Steppe has too low ANE to account for the high ANE among them then. How much WSHG do South Asians have though on average?

1. Yes, Uralics have the most WSHG. ANE is typified by MA1. They are practically synonymous with each other, although I've seen Afontovagora 3 used as the ANE component as well I don't really see it as such but a closely related group much like WSHG. There are ANE descendant groups which branched out and brought ANE to far flung areas of the globe. EHG and WSHG being the most ANE rich but Iran_N and CHG also had a lot of ANE in them confusingly enough. Together these 4 groups are responsible for the vast majority of ANE found in Eurasia. Not sure which ANE descendant branch the Natives come from.

2. Depends, BMAC have Siberian steppe(WSHG/EHG related) and of course internal ANE(which I wouldn't really call steppe) through their Iran_N but they don't have proper "Indo European" steppe. The arrival of the steppe hordes produced the groups that you have mentioned i.e. Tajiks and Pamiris, Pashtuns etc. Not all the Iran_N ancestry in Pashtuns and Balochis comes from BMAC, a lot comes from IVC too. This is especially true for Indians who have little to no BMAC usually.

3. By Hindus I mean all indians. Pure Iran_N and steppe(Sintashta like?) alone would be too ANE deficient to account for South Asians ANE alone, unless the mesolithic hunter gatherers already had absurd amounts of EHG/ANE ancestry. Im sure they had some when ANE-like people came and mixed with the native AASI Onge-like people, but also the later steppe and Iran_N people who arrived in India had acquired extra EHG/WSHG ancestry along the way too in my eyes(in Central Asia).

[Rei_]

No. They are Eurasian.