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Thread: Pub smoking ban: 10 charts that show the impact

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
    I still have to vape, I brought it down from 24 mg to 6 now, it's just such a long standing habit.

    I have no desire to smoke my erm fuck buddy, she'll smoke when she drinks but I won't
    6mg is very good... well done!

    I still like using 24mg and 18mg on smaller cig-a-like devices, tho I can get it down to 12 mg (and sometimes 6mg) using higher powered vaping devices... which can create the effect of higher nicotine shots. (I'm a nicotine addict who's completely quit smoking, although my cravings for nicotine aren't as strong as like when I used to smoke before joining the happy vaping community.)

    24mg is no longer allowed to be sold in the EU after the TPD laws made it illegal in May this year.... so I stocked-up on 24mg e-liquids while they were all being sold-off at very low prices.

    Some 24mg users in the UK are currently going through 'post 24mg blues' with e-product companies such as JAC Vapour advising their fans to use a higher-powered vaping device instead to compensate for 18mg being the highest level they can now legally sell (post-TPD law)... until people feel able to gradually reduce their nicotine level if they wish to.

    I'm not sure if I'll ever decide to quit vaping (it's a gradual process if people want to quit nicotine altogether)... but one thing I know for sure is that I've no desire to ever smoke again as that's way more dangerous. I feel so much healthier and can breathe much better too since quitting smoking.

    Sometimes I get an occasional mild craving to smoke, but I just use my willpower and vape instead... and the craving feeling for a smoke soon disappears after vaping on my electric cigarette devices.

    My favourite e-liquid flavours are strawberries & cream, cherry, vanilla, banana milkshake, pineapple, pear drops, juicy peach, lemon & lime, blackcurrant, mango, raspberry, banoffee pie, caramel, hazelnut and milk chocolate, cinnamon cream, mint choc chip ice-cream, French vanilla, toffee, fudge, menthol, and occasionally tobacco flavours.

    I also like a mix of 50/50 PG/VG in the base to obtain both throat hit and vapour production, although I'm not into creating huge plumes of vapour.

    When I'm in public places outside, I prefer using small, discreet, lightweight personal vaping pens, or the slim and small 'cig-a-like' models with auto batteries and with mini clearomizers attached, as I don't like cartomizers.

    I like the five-click function to lock and unlock the manual batteries that don't automatically start vaping by themself in your handbag like the autos do sometimes.

    The problem with the small devices are the batteries don't last for long and need recharging frequently, compared to the larger and higher powered batteries that can last all day and create more heat and vapour. Plus the box mod kits have digital displays on them to adjust the voltage, resistance, memory function buttons to record the last vape time, monitor the number of puffs taken, etc.

    I have a lot of different flavours stocked. I keep several spare clearomizers, atomizers, spare batteries for when the other needs recharging, chargers, and a power-supply bank in my leak-proof and shock-proof little vaping case I carry on me whenever I'm outside or away from home. (I also carry an emergency spare NRT patch and my little inhalator just incase vaping is forbidden in places.)

    I also like it that you can buy sub-ohm tanks, and low-resistance coils, various mouthpieces, adjustable airflow and power voltage on devices.... plus the ability to create your own flavour mixes too using base liquids, flavours, e-liquid syringes and mixing bottles, and advanced vapers can buy tools to build and customise their own coils.

    I love watching the vaping product and e-liquid reviews on YT as they sometimes have discount codes for vaping products featured underneath their videos. I often find anywhere between 5% and 20% discount codes from reviewers that I use off products. I like to leave reviews on e-liquid flavours and vaping devices that the reputable companies sell and earn a load of reward points that can be turned into money vouchers off vaping products.

    This vaper has been happily vaping on e-cigarettes for five years and he showed the improvement of his lungs clearing in his medical x-ray photos since he quit smoking:
    Last edited by ♥ Lily ♥; 07-24-2017 at 09:08 PM.
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    Some of my favourite advice links, reputable products and stores, and reviewers for e-cigarettes, personal vaping pens, box mods, kits, e-liquids, coils, clearomizers, cartomisers, atomizers, etc.

    http://www.ecigclick.co.uk/what-is-t...cig-in-the-uk/

    http://e-cigreviews.org.uk/e-liquid-uk/

    https://cbdvapejuice.net/comprehensive-guide-vaping/

    https://vapingdaily.com/what-is-vapi...y-terminology/

    http://www.ecigclick.co.uk/best-box-mods-and-vape-mods/

    https://www.vapemate.co.uk/getting-s...t-smoking.html

    https://quitsmokingcommunity.org/how...ng-vs-smoking/

    http://www.e-cigarettereviewsuk.co.uk/e-liquids/

    http://www.vapetime.co.uk/electronic-cigarette-refills/

    http://www.jacvapour.com

    https://www.buyv2cigs.co.uk/blog/bew...garette-deals/

    https://www.ukecigstore.com/aspire-n...emium-kit.html

    https://www.electrictobacconist.co.uk/aspire-m31

    https://highbrowvapor.com

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbTfKD3BtL8



    My favourite Cig-a-Like model are the V3i batteries by JAC Vapour. I love the excellent, very helpful and friendly customer service with JAC Vapour too. My little JAC batteries last me for many months even with regular daily use, and you can change the colours of the LED light on the ends of the batteries. They're about half the price of the V2 Cig-a-Like models. Both V2 and JAC make high quality Cig-a-Likes, that are also stylish too.


    Loads of people have given the Aspire Nautilus mini tank extremely positive reviews... it's also one of my personal favourite vaping pens (along with the popular Ego & Twists and Evod kits.)


    A lot of people recommend the Innokin Coolfire 4 40W for beginners users of box mod kits - although advanced vapers tend to prefer the more powerful and technical box mod kits.
    Last edited by ♥ Lily ♥; 07-24-2017 at 04:20 PM.
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    When I walk around outside in stylish and fashionable West Central London I'm seeing a decrease in old-fashioned smokers and an ever-growing amount of vapers... from businessmen dressed in smart suits elegantly holding their e-cigarettes and vaping pens.... to young people vaping on devices outside stylish cafes and restaurants.... and I've even seen little old ladies walking their dogs and holding their box mod kits and vaping pens, etc.

    I can sometimes even smell what e-liquid they're vaping on in the water vapour produced in the air... if it's fruity, minty, or sweet scents.... but when I walk past old-fashioned smokers in the street, the smoke and the smell is terrible... and smoking on smelly analogues is not stylish in the 21st century.














    Last edited by ♥ Lily ♥; 07-23-2017 at 11:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ♥ Lily ♥ View Post
    Some of my favourite advice links, reputable products and stores, and reviewers for e-cigarettes, personal vaping pens, box mod, kits, e-liquids, coils, clearomisers, cartomisers, atomisers, etc.

    http://www.ecigclick.co.uk/what-is-t...cig-in-the-uk/

    http://e-cigreviews.org.uk/e-liquid-uk/

    https://cbdvapejuice.net/comprehensive-guide-vaping/

    https://vapingdaily.com/what-is-vapi...y-terminology/

    http://www.ecigclick.co.uk/best-box-mods-and-vape-mods/

    https://www.vapemate.co.uk/getting-s...t-smoking.html

    https://quitsmokingcommunity.org/how...ng-vs-smoking/

    http://www.e-cigarettereviewsuk.co.uk/e-liquids/

    http://www.vapetime.co.uk/electronic-cigarette-refills/

    http://www.jacvapour.com

    https://www.buyv2cigs.co.uk/blog/bew...garette-deals/

    https://www.ukecigstore.com/aspire-n...emium-kit.html

    https://www.electrictobacconist.co.uk/aspire-m31

    https://highbrowvapor.com

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbTfKD3BtL8



    My favourite cig-a-like model and I love the excellent and helpful and friendly customer service with JAC Vapour, who are always to replace products and give advice and discounts. My JAC V3i cig-a-like auto batteries last me for many months even with regular daily use, and you can change the LED light colour on the ends, etc. They're about half the price of the V2 cig-a-likes.... although V2 also make very good quality ones that are also stylish.


    Loads of people have given the Aspire Nautilus mini tank extremely positive reviews... it's also one of my personal favourite vaping pens (along with the popular Ego & Twists, Evod tanks, and Nova tanks.)


    A lot of people recommend the Innokin Coolfire 4 40W for beginners to box mod kits, although more advanced vapers prefer the more powerful and technical box mod kits.
    they have quality cool e-cigs in my local tobaccoo store i will inquire how healthy it really is if its significantly healthier then cigs i will switch to it
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    Germany is showing us what could soon happen to us in Austria with a left-wing Austro traffic light. Do we want a situation where we can no longer choose the heating system, but we can choose the gender? Hardly likely! Only a strong FPÖ and a Freedom Party People's Chancellor will know how to prevent such nonsense. - Herbert Kickl FPÖ Bundesobmann

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
    they have quality cool e-cigs in my local tobaccoo store i will inquire how healthy it really is if its significantly healthier then cigs i will switch to it
    Yeah, yeah.... you said that over a month ago and we had this convo before about what your mum says about e-cigs being 'dangerous'... compared to what the experts say.... but you're still continuing to smoke which is far more dangerous and expensive than obtaining nicotine through vaping.

    The UK Government's Department of Health have found e-cigarettes to be 95% safer than smoking.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...andmark-review


    Cigarettes give-off 4000 chemicals per cigarette (including carbon monoxide, tar, and other carcinogenic chemicals.) See 3:05 in the video below.

    E-liquids are made from pharmaceutical-grade ingredients that are used in asthma inhalators and flavours that comply with the TPD (EU) or the FDA (US) regulations. Diacetyl and AP aren't used in reputable e-liquids. It's not smoke that's produced from e-cigs, but water steam vapour in the air which quickly vanishes, unlike clouds of smoke that lingers in the air for hours. People inhale far more vapour in the shower each day than from e-cigarettes according to doctors.

    The only harmful ingredient in e-liquids is nicotine, but that can be reduced right down to 0mg which can have a placebo effect for people who like the hand-to-mouth ritual and habit. You won't find real tobacco and packets of cigarettes in pharmacies.... but they'll sell e-cigarettes - although usually not the best brands which can be found in e-cigarette stores.

    It's not carbon monoxide and tar that smokers are addicted to.... but nicotine addiction along with the hand-to-mouth habit, which they can aquire through the safer alternative of vaping.

    As an ex-smoker and a modern vaper myself, I can breathe better, I'm no longer coughing, I feel better, I can taste food and smell things much better.... and a long list of benefits that I feel.

    3:05
    Last edited by ♥ Lily ♥; 07-23-2017 at 11:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ♥ Lily ♥ View Post
    Yeah, yeah.... you said that over a month ago and we had this convo before about what your mum says about e-cigs being 'dangerous'... compared to what the experts say.... but you're still continuing to smoke which is far more dangerous than obtaining nicotine through vaping.

    The UK Government's Department of Health have found e-cigarettes to be 95% safer than smoking. Cigarettes give-off 4000 chemicals per cigarette (including carbon monoxide, tar, and other carcinogenic ingredients.) E-liquids are made from pharaceutical-grade ingredients that are used in asthma inhalators and comply with the TPD (EU) or the FDA (US.)

    It's not carbon monoxide and tar that smokers are addicted to.... but nicotine addiction along with the hand-to-mouth habit, which they can aquire through the safer alternative of vaping.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e...andmark-review

    i will really do it though
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    Germany is showing us what could soon happen to us in Austria with a left-wing Austro traffic light. Do we want a situation where we can no longer choose the heating system, but we can choose the gender? Hardly likely! Only a strong FPÖ and a Freedom Party People's Chancellor will know how to prevent such nonsense. - Herbert Kickl FPÖ Bundesobmann

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    It's good that the pubs have taken such action since many people who visit the pubs just want to sit down and have a couple of drinks with their friends for socializing and so on. Smoking isn't just unhealthy for the smoker but those who are around them since 2nd hand smoking is just as bad for other peoples as for the smoker.

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    Vaping takes off as e-cigarette sales break through $6bn

    E-cigarettes are soaring in popularity and have started to steal smoking quitters away from nicotine replacement products such as patches and gum




    By Lauren Davidson
    23 Jun 2015

    UK sales of nicotine replacements such as patches and gum fell for the first time in years as consumers turned to vaping devices to kick the habit.

    In a sign that British consumers are increasingly using e-cigarettes as a crutch to quit smoking, domestic vaping sales increased by 75pc to Ł459m while spending on nicotine replacement therapies such as patches and gum fell by 3pc to Ł137m, its first decline since 2008, ending four years of annual growth of between 5pc and 6pc.

    Globally, sales of vapour devices grew by 59pc to Ł3.9bn – breaking through $6bn for the first time – as business in its largest market, the US, more than doubled to Ł1.7bn, according to data from Euromonitor International.



    Shane MacGuill, senior tobacco analyst at Euromonitor, said he was “hesitant” to conclude from the global data that consumers trying to kick the habit are increasingly choosing e-cigarettes over more traditional therapies, but said that the trend in bigger markets such as the UK “does look a lot like correlation and perhaps even causation”.

    UK vaping sales inched past nicotine replacement sales in 2012 and are now more than three times higher.

    The UK is now the second largest market for vaping devices in the world after surpassing Italy, where sales fell by 39pc in 2014.

    The proportion of adults in the UK who smoke dropped from 27pc in 1999 to 19pc in 2014, falling from 24pc to 17pc in the US.



    E-cigarettes present one of the more serious threats to the traditional tobacco industry, which is struggling to combat smoking bans, rising taxes, increased health awareness and an overall decline in smokers.

    “Up until now there has been no direct competition for cigarettes in a meaningful sense, and nicotine replacement therapies were certainly not providing that,” said Mr MacGuill. “The days of the traditional cigarette are numbered – the only question is how long that process will take – and e-cigarettes have the potential to drastically shorten the shelf life of traditional tobacco products.”

    Combined with new laws in Australia and the UK that require cigarette packets to have plain packaging, vaping is “a difficult proposition for the tobacco industry and something it should be very worried about”.

    The death knell of Big Tobacco should not be sounded yet, though, as the value of the cigarette retail industry in the UK is still more than 30 times larger than its electronic alternative.

    UK cigarette sales increased by less than 1pc to Ł15.5bn last year, while the global market grew by 6pc to nearly Ł452bn.

    However, “any value growth is because cigarettes are getting more expensive”, said Mr MacGuill, attributing most of the price rises to higher taxation. “Volume growth is very limited globally.

    Tax accounts for up to 90pc of the price of a packet of cigarettes in the UK, which now costs on Ł9.16 on average, up from Ł4.98 a decade ago, according to the Tobacco Manufacturers’ Association.



    The exception to the rule is China, the largest tobacco market in the world, where cigarette sales jumped by 9pc to Ł137bn.

    Chinese people now drink more than British boozers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...h-boozers.html


    Mr MacGuill explained that the prevalence of smoking in China is flat, but as the population is large and growing, the total number of smokers – currently about 300m, a third of the world’s total – is rising.

    By 2018, one in two smokers in the world will be in China, according to Euromonitor’s estimates.

    “You’re talking about a market where smoking was banned in schools last year," and in Beijing offices and public transport last month, he said. “That’s an indication of how deeply entrenched smoking is in China.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...rough-6bn.html

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    I guess the Chinese don't worry about the amount of drinkers and smokers in China as their 1.2 billion population is massive. Their nation is overpopulated and they're trying to find ways to reduce their population.... so smoking and drinking a lot will prematurely kill people whilst bringing large profits to the rich tobacco companies.
    Last edited by ♥ Lily ♥; 07-24-2017 at 07:50 PM.

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    Is smoking finally on its way to being stubbed out?

    The proportion of UK adults who smoke has fallen from 27pc in 1999 to 19pc in 2014


    Almost a decade after the UK ban on smoking in public places, the number of people smoking has slumped

    By Ben Martin, 06 Jun 2015

    When Cecilia Letourneau and Jean-Yves Blais picked a fight with the tobacco industry 17 years ago, they began a legal battle that would make history in Canada.

    Letourneau, a smoker who could not quit, brought her class action lawsuit on behalf of 918,000 nicotine addicts in Quebec. A separate suit filed by Blais, who died of lung cancer in 2012, sought damages for 90,000 people with smoking-related diseases.

    Last week, after an arduous legal process that saw the two cases merged in 2005, Brian Riordan, a Quebec Superior Court judge, delivered his landmark ruling.

    The judge ordered that three Canadian cigarette companies – subsidiaries of FTSE 100 giant British American Tobacco, Japan Tobacco and Philip Morris International – pay out a combined Can$15.6bn (Ł8.2bn), the biggest damages award ever made in Canada.

    The decision has made headlines around the world and triggered speculation about what the future holds for Big Tobacco, an industry dogged by legal wranglings and falling smoking rates.

    Fears that the ruling would trigger a wave of other fines sent shares tumbling in the large tobacco stocks. BAT fell 2.4pc, while Imperial Tobacco, which is not involved in the lawsuit, slumped 2.9pc. The falls wiped more than Ł2.5bn off the market values of the companies.

    The businesses caught up in the legal proceedings are ring-fenced off from their parent companies, meaning the likes of BAT would not be hurt by the Can$10.5bn that its subsidiary has been ordered to pay.

    However, if the damages award is not reduced, the ruling is potentially calamitous for the Canadian units involved and, according to analysts at Nomura, would likely bankrupt the subsidiaries.

    All three immediately pledged to appeal against the damages ruling, a process that will also add years on to the lawsuits. In the US, where tobacco firms have also been hit by class actions involving eye-watering sums, appeals have generally resulted in the damages being slashed.


    Less than a fifth of adults now smoke in the UK

    So, while the ruling doesn’t sound the death knell for Big Tobacco, it is a blow as the industry grapples with its biggest crisis in decades, with many of the biggest manufacturers scrambling for growth in an environment in which governments are increasingly hostile to smokers.

    On the same day that BAT’s Canadian arm was hit with the Quebec ruling, its London-listed parent company announced it had spent €550m (Ł400m) acquiring TDR, Croatia’s biggest cigarette manufacturer.

    The deal, while fairly small, illustrates the steps the world’s biggest cigarette companies are taking to tackle arguably the biggest pressure on the tobacco industry: the dramatic decline of smoking in mature tobacco markets – particularly the world’s more affluent countries – as the habit increasingly falls out of fashion.

    In the UK, the proportion of adults who smoke has fallen from 27.4pc in 1999 to 18.8pc last year, according to data from Euromonitor. Over the same period it has slumped from 24.1pc to 17.4pc in the United States.

    The TDR purchase boosts BAT’s presence in Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia, potentially lucrative central and eastern European markets where the smoking rate is the highest in the world. The same rationale is driving BAT’s attempts to buy out the 24.7pc of Brazilian cigarette maker Souza Cruz that it does not already own.

    “The Croatia deal is at the tail-end of the trend,” says Erik Bloomquist of Berenberg. “The shift toward emerging markets has been going on aggressively certainly since the fall of communism.”

    Even so, emerging economies continue to offer plenty of opportunities to tobacco firms.

    Fast-growing populations and the emergence of a wealthier middle class with cash to spend mean “the dynamics in emerging markets are more favourable than in mature markets”, adds Bloomquist.

    Still, the burgeoning wealth of those markets will eventually prove a double-edged sword.

    “We think the reason you have a secular decline in mature markets is because over time, as people get wealthier and education and health consciousness rises, they decide they’re not willing to trade short-term pleasure for long-term risk,” says Bloomquist. “However, we think that will take many years before it’s actually the case in the emerging markets.”

    Some potentially lucrative countries, though, will remain frustratingly beyond the grasp of the western tobacco firms for the foreseeable future. China, which has more than 300m smokers, is the most prominent.

    “China is estimated to be 40pc of world demand but the multi-nationals have an insignificant share of that market, which is dominated by a series of state-owned companies,” says Panmure Gordon analyst Jonathan Leinster. There is no evidence to suggest that will change any time soon and the market will open up to outsiders.

    Furthermore, even attractive markets such as China are starting to evolve. Government intervention – the scourge of the tobacco industry that has done much to dent demand for smoking in the West – is beginning to ramp up in the East.

    On Monday, just before the Canadian court ruling, a prohibition on smoking in public places – both indoor and outdoor – came into force in Beijing. The move follows bans of varying severity in countries around the world. In Scotland, a smoke-free law was implemented in 2006 and England followed suit a year later.


    Reynolds American, the maker of Camel cigarettes only recently banned smoking in its offices

    Governments are taking a wide range of approaches to encourage smokers to kick the habit, including graphic images of cancer on packaging. In April, a ban took effect prohibiting the public display of cigarettes at the point of sale in small British retailers.

    Later this year, drivers in England will be prohibited from smoking in cars if there are children in the vehicle.

    The most controversial recent step – at least from the perspective of the tobacco companies – came earlier this year, when the British Government became only the second in the world to ban cigarette branding with the passing of the plain packaging law.

    In doing so the UK follows Australia, which introduced similar legislation two and a half years ago.

    The tobacco firms are up in arms about the new packaging rules and last month BAT, Philip Morris, and Japan Tobacco all launched legal challenges on the grounds the legislation infringed trademark rights.

    The industry has argued that the Australian experience suggests that plain packaging his little impact on smoking rates. Panmure analyst Leinster, however, says it is too early for the manufacturers to make that claim.

    “The measures were only introduced in December 2012 and were aimed at trying to reduce youth smoking. You’d have to take a 10-year view on whether or not it has worked. It was never intended to drive volumes down on a two-year basis.”

    More effective in encouraging smokers to quit is the tax system, according to Martin Deboo, an analyst at Jefferies.

    “Behind all the rhetoric of plain packaging and graphic warnings, the most successful way of reducing cigarette consumption is to put prices up,” he says. “So the main tool of regulation is raising duties.”

    According to the Tobacco Manufacturers’ Association, tax accounts for almost 90pc of the price of the cheapest cigarettes sold in Britain. The average price of a premium pack of 20 cigarettes has climbed from Ł4.98 a decade ago to Ł9.16.

    In the Budget in March, George Osborne, the Chancellor, stuck with a 2pc above-inflation rise in tobacco duties.

    However, he appeared to row back on a proposal to implement a levy on tobacco companies’ profits, which would likely force cigarette manufactures to lift prices further. Action on Smoking and Health (Ash) has lobbied hard for the levy and estimates that smoking costs the NHS at least Ł2bn every year.

    To tackle the public health argument presented by Ash, the tobacco companies are exploring lower-risk alternatives to traditional cigarettes.

    Some in the industry hope that electronic cigarettes are the answer. Big Tobacco is increasingly vying with independent manufacturers of e-cigarettes, which do not use tobacco but instead deliver the nicotine that smokers crave in a vapour.


    How times have changed. This advert, featuring Arthur Godfrey, Bing Crosby and Perry Como, was released in 1949

    All of the major cigarette makers now have electronic products in the hope that the growing popularity of vaping will offset decline in smoking.

    The problem with e-cigarettes, however, is that they are not as effective as conventional cigarettes at delivering nicotine, which dampens their appeal to smokers.

    Question marks also hang over the risks associated with the technology. And while some statistics show that they help smokers quit, anti-smoking campaigners are concerned that young people using e-cigarettes will eventually move on to tobacco – a worry that counters the claim that vaping is lower risk.

    Deboo is sceptical that the products are the solution to the tobacco industry’s problems.

    “The current conventional wisdom is that e-cigarettes have peaked. The recent sales trends in the US and Europe have been flat to declining,” he says.

    Meanwhile, the viability of so-called heat-not-burn products – another area of potential growth that is being investigated by some tobacco companies such as Philip Morris and BAT – is also unclear.

    Unlike e-cigarettes, these products do use tobacco. However, while conventional cigarettes burn tobacco, the new products merely heat it, which manufacturers hope makes them safer.

    Whether such products are truly lower-risk is still to be proven, however, and, because they involve tobacco, analysts have warned they could face the same high tax rates as traditional cigarettes.

    It remains to be seen, then, if either of the two potentially less risky smoking products can staunch the decline in traditional cigarettes that poses an even greater threat to the prospects of the tobacco companies than lawsuits such as those in Canada.

    Ominously, even the industry’s biggest players appear divided as to whether those alternative products will halt the drop in smoking.

    Earlier this year, Imperial Tobacco took the unusual step of publicly declaring it is not “interested” in heat-not-burn technology, ruling itself out of one of the few areas others hoped might lift the haze that shrouds the industry’s future.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...amped-out.html
    Last edited by ♥ Lily ♥; 07-24-2017 at 04:25 PM.

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