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Thread: Athenian Greek GEDmatch: a good example of pre-Slavic mainland Greeks?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    I have come to realize you are going to deny it no matter what evidence is put in front of you. I posted every mainland Greek in one thread if you want to see how they are far from homogenous region to region and surely Slavic influence plays a part.
    I first believe the evidence done by real Scientists who have worked on this for years!

    Your programms are very dodgy,
    how can you say that someone because of certain haplogroups clusters Jewish or Slavic?"to begin with,because i think the whole conception these calculators use is wrong"

    These haplogroups where around before Jewish and Slavic identities where formed.!

    Perhabs it is Jews and Slavs which cluster like something which existed before them and could be a common
    share they have with other not directly related groups of modern people.


    Also if you do real genetics you don't observe the existence of one particular haplotype,which lets say is common
    among Slavs and only therefore call him Slavic!
    Because he can have other haplotypes which Slavs don't have at all!
    Last edited by Tauromachos; 08-14-2017 at 03:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    I first believe the evidence done by real Scientists who have worked on this for years!

    Your programms are very dogdy,
    how can you say that someone because of certain haplogroups clusters Jewish or Slavic?"to begin with,because i think the whole conception these calculators use is wrong"

    These haplogroups where around before Jewish and Slavic identities where formed.!

    Perhabs it is Jews and Slavs which cluster like something which existed before them and could be a common
    share with other not directly related groups of modern people.


    Also if you do real genetics you don't observe the existence of one particular haplotype,which lets say is common
    among Slavs and only therefore call him Slavic!
    Because he can have other haplotypes which Slavs don't have at all!

    Ok let's think of it this way. Compared to MYCENAEANS, i.e. your own ancestors, you shift north 30%. Ignore Sicilians for a moment, who may plot like Mycenaeans on a PCA plot -- kind of, though Mycenaeans shift toward Sardinia 25% or so), and look at Mycenaeans. If not Slavicized, wouldn't you still be 100% identical to them more or less?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Why is that worthy of eye rolling? What I said was true, and it wasn't even in this thread. Why are you getting nasty with me over it?
    Because telling a Greek person that Sicilians are intermediate between Greece and Cyprus is nonesense,sorry.

    Cyprus was an integral part of the Greek world for most of the time.

    As the South Eastern most part of the Greek World its close to the Levante and logically it can have much more Levantine affinity than
    other Greeks.
    If Sicilians seem to be close to Cyprus this is because the Levantine input in West Sicily making it seem like that.
    Other than that, there is nothing Sicilians have to do with Cyprus

    I never heard about migration movements from Sicily to Cyprus and vice versa.
    Where are historical sources for this?
    Last edited by Tauromachos; 08-14-2017 at 02:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Ok let's think of it this way. Compared to MYCENAEANS, i.e. your own ancestors, you shift north 30%. Ignore Sicilians for a moment, who may plot like Mycenaeans on a PCA plot -- kind of, though Mycenaeans shift toward Sardinia 25% or so), and look at Mycenaeans. If not Slavicized, wouldn't you still be 100% identical to them more or less?
    The 30% never applies to Greeks on an individual basis in general.
    These numbers are always overall population estimates.
    And if you include South East Aegean Greeks you can never get this 30%!
    I suppose you talking here to a general Greek person.

    As for me as a Person you don't know where my Ancestry is from and i don't have to tell you.
    How do you know that i shift 30% North?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Because telling a Greek person that Sicilians are intermediate between Greece and Cyprus is nonesense,sorry.

    Cyprus was an integral part of the Greek world for most of the time.

    As the South Eastern most part of the Greek World its close to the Levante and logically it can have much more Levantine affinity than
    other Greeks.
    If Sicilians seem to be close to Cyprus this is because the Levantine input in West Sicily making it seem like that.
    Other than that, there is nothing Sicilians have to do with Cyprus

    I never heard about migration movements from Sicily to Cyprus and vice versa.
    Where are historical sources for this.


    Ok I mean between MAINLAND Greece and Cyprus. It really seems like people know exactly what I mean but choose to take it literally.

    Anyway as we can see (which you would see if you even looked at the thread I posted to your wall), mainlanders vary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Anyway as we can see (which you would see if you even looked at the thread I posted to your wall), mainlanders vary.
    This is what i said several times!
    What means Mainlander?There is not such a thing as the Mainlander vs the Islander.

    And Islanders vary as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    much more Slavic (most mainlanders, even Peloponnesians).
    And this is wrong again.
    There is not so much Slavic in all Maiiiiiiiinlandersssssss.......!
    And some Mainlanders simply have none of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    And this is wrong again.
    There is not so much Slavic in all Maiiiiiiiinlandersssssss.......!
    And some Mainlanders simply have none of it.
    This is the problem , I think.... I have no idea what is being called "slavic". 23andme groups most of this as "Balkan", and eurogenes I guess is able to get something out of there called "Baltic". I think all mainland Greeks have these two categories. ( I am not sure if Italians score Baltic). But the category 'East European" is rare in Greece, but does show up, especially in the North. Is this the only Slavic thing? or is it paternal line dna? Or is "Slavic" considered here simply the PCA difference between a mainlander and a Sicilian? If so, that seems... well, maybe a bit off...
    書堂개 삼 년에 풍월 읊는다

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scholarios View Post
    Or is "Slavic" considered here simply the PCA difference between a mainlander and a Sicilian? If so, that seems... well, maybe a bit off...
    Mycenaeans would have had the same PCA position as a Sicilian, but for a different reason... their components are very different. Sicilians have Levantine input and more North European than Mycenaeans, who were more like a mixture of Sardinians and Caucasians.

    But if they did plot in the same place, then you could indeed measure the difference to modern Greeks and say the difference is the amount of their shift toward NE Europe, whether entirely caused by Slavs or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Mycenaeans would have had the same PCA position as a Sicilian, but for a different reason... their components are very different. Sicilians have Levantine input and more North European than Mycenaeans, who were more like a mixture of Sardinians and Caucasians.
    .
    So?
    You admit that Sicilians aren't 100% Mycannean Greek neither

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