Could Indo-Europeans have spread by sea?

[War Chef]

Yep. I think you're onto something. Hittite & Luwian would be easily explained by I-E vikings raiding from across Black Sea. Something like this.

[Dr. Bambo]

No, by land mostly. Except Greeks and Vikings.

[Nyx]

Actually, even the guy at eupedia seems to agree with me:

Combined with advanced bronze weapons and their sea-based culture, the western branch (R1b) of the Indo-Europeans from the Black Sea shores are excellent candidates for being the mysterious Sea Peoples, who raided the eastern shores of the Mediterranean during the second millennium BCE.

I think that makes sense to me. If you take a look at the weapons of the Sea Peoples, they are very reminiscent of the swords of the ancient Celts in many way:




On a side note, the tribe of Dan, one of the twelve tribe of Israel, may have been a group within the Sea People called the "Denyen" who attacked Egypt:

The fact that the Biblical maritime Tribe of Dan was initially located between the Philistines and the Tjekker, has prompted some to suggest that they may originally have been Denyen. Sherden seem to have been settled around Megiddo and in the Jordan Valley, and Weshwesh (Biblical Asher) may have been settled further north.

Their primary trade characteristic was seafaring, unusual for the Israelite tribes. In the Song of Deborah the tribe is said to have stayed on their ships with their belongings.

If this is true then the Jews who fled Egypt in the Bible were led by indo-europeans and everything pertaining to the tribe of Dan is Indo-European.

"But the Danites had difficulty taking possession of their territory, so they went up and attacked Leshem, took it, put it to the sword and occupied it. They settled in Leshem and NAMED IT DAN after their forefather" (Josh. 19:47).

"Gilead stayed beyond the Jordan. And Dan, why did he linger by the ships? Asher remained on the coast and stayed in his coves." Judges 5:17

[Fantomas]

I think that makes sense to me. If you take a look at the weapons of the Sea Peoples, they are very reminiscent of the swords of the ancient Celts in many way:

There're some circumstantial evidence supporting "Celtic" presence in pre-historical time in the Mediterranean like names of Brettii, Temesa, Morgantium:

Strabo.VI

3.Beyond Thurii lies also the country that is called Tauriana. The Leucani are Samnite in race, but upon mastering the Poseidoniatae and their allies in war they took possession of their cities. At all other times, it is true, their government was democratic, but in times of war they were wont to choose a king from those who held magisterial offices. But now they are Romans.

4.The seaboard that comes next after Leucania, as far as the Sicilian Strait and for a distance of thirteen hundred and fifty stadia, is occupied by the Brettii.

But the Brettii are situated beyond the Leucani; they live on a peninsula, but this peninsula includes another peninsula which has the isthmus that extends from Scylletium to the Hipponiate Gulf. The name of the tribe was given to it by the Leucani, for the Leucani call all revolters "brettii." The Brettii revolted, so it is said (at first they merely tended flocks for the Leucani, and then, by reason of the indulgence of their masters, began to act as free men), at the time when Dio made his expedition against Dionysius and aroused all peoples against all others. So much, then, for my general description of the Leucani and the Brettii.

5.The next city after Laüs belongs to Brettium, and is named Temesa, though the men of to‑day call it Tempsa; it was founded by the Ausones, but later on was settled also by the Aetolians under the leadership of Thoas; but the Aetolians were ejected by the Brettii, and then the Brettii were crushed by Hannibal and by the Romans.

People say that Homer has in mind this Temesa, not the Tamassus in Cyprus (the name is spelled both ways), when he says "to Temesa, in quest of copper.

And in fact copper mines are to be seen in the neighbourhood, although now they have been abandoned. Near Temesa is Terina, which Hannibal destroyed, because he was unable to guard it, at the time when he had taken refuge in Brettium itself. Then comes Consentia, the metropolis of the Brettii; and a little above this city is Pandosia, a strong fortress, near which Alexander the Molossian was killed. He, too, was deceived by the oracle

6.According to Antiochus, the Siceli and Morgetes had in early times inhabited the whole of this region, but later on, being ejected by the Oenotrians, had crossed over into Sicily. According to some, Morgantium also took its name from the Morgetes of Rhegium.

Also there're some similar to IE (Celtic) tribe names on ancient Sardinia like: Celsitani, Cunusitani, Galillesi and Lugudonensi, just like names of some Sea Peoples: Deneyen-Irish Danaans, Ekwesh- Equaesi from Atlantic Iberia, Lukka-name of Celtic god Lugh was the root for many Celtic placenames tribe and some tribes, Weshesh- Osismii the Gallic tribe or Uxisame island (Ushant today), Turshu-Tersites ot Turdetans not Celtic but maybe related to Celts

Strabo.III

Along with the happy lot of their country, the qualities of both gentleness and civility have come to the Turdetanians; and to the Celtic peoples, too, on account of their being neighbours to the Turdetanians, as Polybius has said, or else on account of their kinship; but less so the Celtic peoples, because for the most part they live in mere villages.

I.5

We must still add, he says, the bulge of Europe outside the Pillars, which lies over against Iberia and leans westward, reaching not less than three thousand stadia; we must also add all the capes, but in particular that of the Ostimians, called Cabaeum, and the islands about it — the outermost of which, Uxisame, Pytheas says, is a three days' sail distant. And after mentioning these last places, though all of them in their stretch add nothing to the length of the inhabited world, he has added the regions in the neighbourhood of the capes, of the Ostimians, of Uxisame, and of all the islands he names. (In fact, these places all lie towards the north and belong to Celtica, not to Iberia — or rather they are inventions of Pytheas.) And he adds to the aforesaid length-distances still other stadia, namely, two thousand on the west, and two thousand on the east, in order to keep the breadth from being more than half the length.

[Linebacker]

I hate it when the word "spread" is used in such themes.

Diseases and rodents spread,as well as legs.

People Migrate.

[Nyx]

There're some circumstantial evidence supporting "Celtic" presence in pre-historical time in the Mediterranean like names of Brettii, Temesa, Morgantium:

Strabo.VI

3.Beyond Thurii lies also the country that is called Tauriana. The Leucani are Samnite in race, but upon mastering the Poseidoniatae and their allies in war they took possession of their cities. At all other times, it is true, their government was democratic, but in times of war they were wont to choose a king from those who held magisterial offices. But now they are Romans.

4.The seaboard that comes next after Leucania, as far as the Sicilian Strait and for a distance of thirteen hundred and fifty stadia, is occupied by the Brettii.

But the Brettii are situated beyond the Leucani; they live on a peninsula, but this peninsula includes another peninsula which has the isthmus that extends from Scylletium to the Hipponiate Gulf. The name of the tribe was given to it by the Leucani, for the Leucani call all revolters "brettii." The Brettii revolted, so it is said (at first they merely tended flocks for the Leucani, and then, by reason of the indulgence of their masters, began to act as free men), at the time when Dio made his expedition against Dionysius and aroused all peoples against all others. So much, then, for my general description of the Leucani and the Brettii.

5.The next city after Laüs belongs to Brettium, and is named Temesa, though the men of to‑day call it Tempsa; it was founded by the Ausones, but later on was settled also by the Aetolians under the leadership of Thoas; but the Aetolians were ejected by the Brettii, and then the Brettii were crushed by Hannibal and by the Romans.

People say that Homer has in mind this Temesa, not the Tamassus in Cyprus (the name is spelled both ways), when he says "to Temesa, in quest of copper.

And in fact copper mines are to be seen in the neighbourhood, although now they have been abandoned. Near Temesa is Terina, which Hannibal destroyed, because he was unable to guard it, at the time when he had taken refuge in Brettium itself. Then comes Consentia, the metropolis of the Brettii; and a little above this city is Pandosia, a strong fortress, near which Alexander the Molossian was killed. He, too, was deceived by the oracle

6.According to Antiochus, the Siceli and Morgetes had in early times inhabited the whole of this region, but later on, being ejected by the Oenotrians, had crossed over into Sicily. According to some, Morgantium also took its name from the Morgetes of Rhegium.

Also there're some similar to IE (Celtic) tribe names on ancient Sardinia like: Celsitani, Cunusitani, Galillesi and Lugudonensi, just like names of some Sea Peoples: Deneyen-Irish Danaans, Ekwesh- Equaesi from Atlantic Iberia, Lukka-name of Celtic god Lugh was the root for many Celtic placenames tribe and some tribes, Weshesh- Osismii the Gallic tribe or Uxisame island (Ushant today), Turshu-Tersites ot Turdetans not Celtic but maybe related to Celts

Strabo.III

Along with the happy lot of their country, the qualities of both gentleness and civility have come to the Turdetanians; and to the Celtic peoples, too, on account of their being neighbours to the Turdetanians, as Polybius has said, or else on account of their kinship; but less so the Celtic peoples, because for the most part they live in mere villages.

I.5

We must still add, he says, the bulge of Europe outside the Pillars, which lies over against Iberia and leans westward, reaching not less than three thousand stadia; we must also add all the capes, but in particular that of the Ostimians, called Cabaeum, and the islands about it — the outermost of which, Uxisame, Pytheas says, is a three days' sail distant. And after mentioning these last places, though all of them in their stretch add nothing to the length of the inhabited world, he has added the regions in the neighbourhood of the capes, of the Ostimians, of Uxisame, and of all the islands he names. (In fact, these places all lie towards the north and belong to Celtica, not to Iberia — or rather they are inventions of Pytheas.) And he adds to the aforesaid length-distances still other stadia, namely, two thousand on the west, and two thousand on the east, in order to keep the breadth from being more than half the length.

That was very interesting, it does seem like wherever the IE went they named their cities with the name of each clan's respective patriarch. I think "Dan" could have been one of those.

"There is no grander theme upon the scrolls of history than the story of this struggle of the Anglo-Saxons westward. The very streams of Europe mark their resting places, and in the root of nearly all their ancient names (Dan, or Don) recall the sacred stream Jor-dan river of rest-- from whose hands, so far away, as exiles, they set out. It was either the little colony of Dan, obeying its tribal proclivity for naming everything it cap- turied (Jud. 18:1-29) after their father, or else the mere survival of a word and custom; but, none the less, it serves to trace these wanderers like a trail. Hence the Dan-ube, the Dan-ieper, the Dan-iester, the Dan-au, the Daci and Davi, the Dan, the Don, the U-Don, the Eri-don, and the thousand other dans and dons of ancient and early geography, down to the Danes in Dan-emerke, or 'Dan's last resting place'" (quoted in Allen, Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright, p. 263-64)."

[Fantomas]

That was very interesting, it does seem like wherever the IE went they named their cities with the name of each clan's respective patriarch. I think "Dan" could have been one of those.

"There is no grander theme upon the scrolls of history than the story of this struggle of the Anglo-Saxons westward. The very streams of Europe mark their resting places, and in the root of nearly all their ancient names (Dan, or Don) recall the sacred stream Jor-dan river of rest-- from whose hands, so far away, as exiles, they set out. It was either the little colony of Dan, obeying its tribal proclivity for naming everything it cap- turied (Jud. 18:1-29) after their father, or else the mere survival of a word and custom; but, none the less, it serves to trace these wanderers like a trail. Hence the Dan-ube, the Dan-ieper, the Dan-iester, the Dan-au, the Daci and Davi, the Dan, the Don, the U-Don, the Eri-don, and the thousand other dans and dons of ancient and early geography, down to the Danes in Dan-emerke, or 'Dan's last resting place'" (quoted in Allen, Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright, p. 263-64)."

It's not surprising, at least "dun" means settlement or fort in Celtics, and there're tons of the ancient place names in Europe with this either ending or root