Ancient Mycenaean and Minoan DNA - Not Indo-European?

[wvwvw]

I do not, no. In Sicily it would be due to Phoenicians and the Arab conquest. In Crete possibly due to trade?

The Cypriots appear the closest to Bronze Age Greeks

[Dr Frasier Crane]

The Cypriots appear the closest to Bronze Age Greeks

Thank you for answering the second part of my question!

That does make sense to me. Cyprus never experienced a Dorian influx and the majority of the island's colonisation was during the Mycenaean age.

[wvwvw]

Indo-European is Haplogroup R.

The study found Caucasoids only, no Indo-Europeans:

Attachment 66455

Indo-Steppes or not, the Minoans spoke proto-Greek an IE language.

The Minoans of 3000 BC like the whole region from Balkans to Anatolia probably spoke Greco-Anatolian a language that should have been very similar to proto-Greek.

The Steppers did not speak IE.

[wvwvw]

Thank you for answering the second part of my question!

That does make sense to me. Cyprus never experienced a Dorian influx and the majority of the island's colonisation was during the Mycenaean age.

The Myceneans were Pelasgians and the Pelasgians were Dorians. They just came in different waves to Greece. The first wave became the Pelasgians a Pelasgo-Minoan mix, and the Pelasgians that were left behind isolated became the Dorians.

[wvwvw]

Are you speaking of only western Sicily or Sicily as a whole? It would be strange for Sicilians to have more Levantine DNA as opposed to Greek. Greeks held more colonies in the region for longer. If they do, could some of that west-asian DNA in Sicily actually be from the Greeks?

That's with the understanding that the Arab conquests left a negligible impact on the island.

The Greeks split from the Sicilians 2000 years ago. After the Roman conquest of Sicily and the loss of Greek control, the composition of the island changed too, Romans, Normans, Jews have colonized the island. We simply took separate ways.

The Phoenicians never had viable colonies in Sicily.

[Dr Frasier Crane]

The Cypriots appear the closest to Bronze Age Greeks

Does this also mean the Bronze Age Greeks also had more of a Levantine input than modern Greeks do today, or are you saying Cypriots are closer related to them despite their Levantine ancestry?

[wvwvw]

Also, parts of Sicily do not have any Greek ancestry -- most people in Palermo do not nor do large parts of Caltanissetta, Messina, or Agrigento. All of these places are the ones with the MOST West Asian, while the region with the most Greek -- Syracuse/Ragusa/Enna -- has the least.

There is influence in Sicily, from North Africa and the Levant, absent in Greece. Thus, it must have arrived either with Phoenicians or during the Arab conquest.

Parts of Sicily do not have Greek ancestry now. That means nothing, because Sicily was conquered by the Romans and was colonized. The Northern African and Levantine influence in Sicily might come from the Carthagians and Jews during Roman times.

[Sikeliot]

Parts of Sicily do not have Greek ancestry now. That means nothing, because Sicily was conquered by the Romans and was colonized. The Northern African and Levantine influence in Sicily might come from the Carthagians and Jews during Roman times.

My guess is that assimilated Jews contributed much of it (and these Jews would have been like actual Levantines, not like Ashkenazim today) and then the rest was a mixture of North African Muslims, Phoenicians, and other people brought during Arab rule.

[wvwvw]

Does this also mean the Bronze Age Greeks also had more of a Levantine input than modern Greeks do today, or are you saying Cypriots are closer related to them despite their Levantine ancestry?

Ancestrally. both Mycenaeans and Minoans were basically Mediterranean, well outside the variation of most Europeans and Near Easterners and >75% from early European-Anatolian farmers.

They weren't pure Mediterraneans, but also partly "West_Asian". Bronze Age people from S.W. Anatolia were even more "West_Asian".

Mycenaeans also had some "Ancient North Eurasian" ancestry, which may have come from either the north or east of Greece.

Two Minoans and a Mycenaean were haplogroup J2, one Minoan was G.
One high-status Mycenaean female from Messenia was not different from the other three Mycenaeans.

Modern Greeks from Greece are more "northern", more "European", and less "Mediterranean" than the Mycenaeans. Bust, Fst-wise Modern Greeks (and Cypriots) are still fairly close to Mycenaeans, more so than other people from Europe and the Middle East.

[Sikeliot]

Thank you for educating me. As I said, sorry for being ignorant.

For what it is worth, Palermo/Agrigento and inland western and northeast Sicily have the most Middle Eastern on the island, while the southeast, east-central, and Trapani have less. But only the southeast comes close to plotting like mainland southern Greeks (Laconia).