Ancient Mycenaean and Minoan DNA - Not Indo-European?

[Dr Frasier Crane]

Ancestrally. both Mycenaeans and Minoans were basically Mediterranean, well outside the variation of most Europeans and Near Easterners and >75% from early European-Anatolian farmers.

They weren't pure Mediterraneans, but also partly "West_Asian". Bronze Age people from S.W. Anatolia were even more "West_Asian".

Mycenaeans also had some "Ancient North Eurasian" ancestry, which may have come from either the north or east of Greece.

Two Minoans and a Mycenaean were haplogroup J2, one Minoan was G.
One high-status Mycenaean female from Messenia was not different from the other three Mycenaeans.

Modern Greeks from Greece are more "northern", more "European", and less "Mediterranean" than the Mycenaeans. Bust, Fst-wise Modern Greeks (and Cypriots) are still fairly close to Mycenaeans, more so than other people from Europe and the Middle East.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Sikeliot]

Thanks for clarifying.

Let me try this.. this is a Sicilian from Ragusa (an area with more Greek input) and then one from Agrigento (one of the less Hellenized regions with more Near Eastern). You can see the difference. The Sicilian is in fact more Near Eastern than the Mycenaean I put first here, as are Cypriots, Cretans, etc.

Mycenaeans have more affinity to the early Neolithic people of Europe, modeled by Sardinians today (really it is a Neolithic Anatolian component though). While Sicilians and Aegean islanders, heck even Laconians, have more Near Eastern affinity than them.

Mycenaean:

Spoiler!

# Population Percent
1 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 37.36
2 CHG_EEF 29.52
3 NATUFIAN 13.73
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 10.07
5 EHG 6.29
6 SHG_WHG 2.41
7 PAPUAN 0.49
8 SE_ASIAN 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 16.17
2 Sardinian 16.3
3 Albanian 17.92
4 Greek 18.36
5 Italian_South 19.33
6 Jew_Ashkenazi 19.91
7 Jew_Moroccan 20.15
8 Cypriot 21.74
9 Jew_Tunisian 22.67
10 Jew_Libyan 22.86
11 Bulgarian 22.88
12 Stuttgart 24.6
13 Turkish 25.41
14 Turkish_Istanbul 25.74
15 Romanian 26
16 Turkish_Balekesir 26.91
17 Lebanese 27.89
18 Turkish_Aydin 28.15
19 Turkish_Adana 28.31
20 Turkish_Kayseri 28.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.6% Sicilian + 20.4% Anatolia_N @ 3.92
2 76% Jew_Ashkenazi + 24% Anatolia_N @ 4.7
3 77.2% Sicilian + 22.8% Europe_EN @ 4.85
4 76.6% Italian_South + 23.4% Anatolia_N @ 4.97
5 61% Sicilian + 39% Stuttgart @ 5
6 60.7% Stuttgart + 39.3% Chechen @ 5.18
7 51.2% Stuttgart + 48.8% Turkish_Istanbul @ 5.35
8 58.9% Stuttgart + 41.1% Kumyk @ 5.41
9 73.2% Jew_Ashkenazi + 26.8% Europe_EN @ 5.42
10 62% Stuttgart + 38% Lezgin @ 5.42
11 55.6% Jew_Ashkenazi + 44.4% Stuttgart @ 5.63
12 77.8% Greek + 22.2% Anatolia_N @ 5.76
13 73.9% Italian_South + 26.1% Europe_EN @ 5.84
14 59.4% Stuttgart + 40.6% Adygei @ 5.99
15 53.7% Stuttgart + 46.3% Turkish_Adana @ 6.07
16 50.9% Stuttgart + 49.1% Turkish @ 6.12
17 53.8% Stuttgart + 46.2% Turkish_Kayseri @ 6.55
18 58.1% Greek + 41.9% Stuttgart @ 6.67
19 78.6% Albanian + 21.4% Anatolia_N @ 6.69
20 58% Stuttgart + 42% Balkar @ 6.7

Ragusa:

Spoiler!

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 30.19
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 24.46
3 NATUFIAN 14.12
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 12.98
5 EHG 7.62
6 SHG_WHG 6.89
7 PAPUAN 2.1
8 SUB_SAHARAN 0.9
9 SIBERIAN 0.68
10 SE_ASIAN 0.05

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 5.67
2 Greek 8.19
3 Jew_Ashkenazi 9.21
4 Albanian 9.54
5 Italian_South 10.5
6 Jew_Moroccan 12.15
7 Bulgarian 13.96
8 Turkish 14.88
9 Turkish_Istanbul 14.97
10 Cypriot 15.57
11 Jew_Tunisian 17.14
12 Jew_Libyan 17.16
13 Turkish_Balekesir 17.21
14 Romanian 17.45
15 Turkish_Aydin 18.36
16 Turkish_Adana 18.89
17 Turkish_Kayseri 19.2
18 Lebanese 20.78
19 Sardinian 22.46
20 Croatian 22.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90% Sicilian + 10% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.17
2 92.6% Sicilian + 7.4% Europe_MNChL @ 3.78
3 89.7% Sicilian + 10.3% Armenia_ChL @ 3.85
4 94.3% Sicilian + 5.7% Europe_EN @ 4.12
5 95.1% Sicilian + 4.9% Anatolia_N @ 4.21
6 92.3% Sicilian + 7.7% Steppe_IA @ 4.5
7 84% Jew_Ashkenazi + 16% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.52
8 86.2% Greek + 13.8% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.61
9 85% Albanian + 15% Levant_BA @ 4.76
10 92.6% Sicilian + 7.4% Armenia_MLBA @ 4.78
11 92.4% Sicilian + 7.6% Stuttgart @ 4.81
12 96.8% Sicilian + 3.2% Steppe_Eneolithic @ 4.94
13 87.2% Jew_Ashkenazi + 12.8% Europe_MNChL @ 4.94
14 89.2% Greek + 10.8% Levant_N @ 5.01
15 97.3% Sicilian + 2.7% Steppe_EMBA @ 5.06
16 96.4% Sicilian + 3.6% MA1 @ 5.08
17 94.8% Sicilian + 5.2% Iran_recent @ 5.08
18 97.4% Sicilian + 2.6% EHG @ 5.09
19 89.3% Jew_Ashkenazi + 10.7% Europe_EN @ 5.14
20 82.2% Italian_South + 17.8% Anatolia_ChL @ 5.19

Agrigento:

Spoiler!

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 28.08
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.07
3 NATUFIAN 18.18
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 17.48
5 EHG 5.15
6 SHG_WHG 4.95
7 SUB_SAHARAN 1.62
8 SIBERIAN 1.51
9 SE_ASIAN 0.95

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Moroccan 6.12
2 Sicilian 7.62
3 Jew_Ashkenazi 8.07
4 Cypriot 8.82
5 Italian_South 11.52
6 Jew_Tunisian 11.54
7 Turkish 11.71
8 Jew_Libyan 11.82
9 Greek 12.07
10 Turkish_Istanbul 12.33
11 Turkish_Adana 13.22
12 Turkish_Kayseri 13.64
13 Lebanese 13.74
14 Turkish_Aydin 14.69
15 Turkish_Balekesir 14.73
16 Albanian 14.76
17 Druze 16.83
18 Jordanian 17.52
19 Syrian 17.62
20 Turkish_Trabzon 17.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.9% Jew_Ashkenazi + 17.1% Armenia_ChL @ 3.53
2 66.6% Sicilian + 33.4% Lebanese @ 3.79
3 85.8% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.2% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.81
4 73.8% Sicilian + 26.2% Jew_iraqi @ 3.87
5 82.4% Cypriot + 17.6% Europe_LNBA @ 4.01
6 52% Lebanese + 48% Albanian @ 4.03
7 54.9% Sicilian + 45.1% Cypriot @ 4.13
8 90.5% Jew_Moroccan + 9.5% Steppe_IA @ 4.17
9 86.8% Sicilian + 13.2% Iran_recent @ 4.21
10 89.3% Jew_Moroccan + 10.7% Europe_LNBA @ 4.27
11 89% Jew_Moroccan + 11% Armenia_ChL @ 4.31
12 73% Sicilian + 27% Jordanian @ 4.32
13 75.6% Sicilian + 24.4% Jew_Iranian @ 4.36
14 53.7% Greek + 46.3% Lebanese @ 4.38
15 76.9% Jew_Moroccan + 23.1% Albanian @ 4.42
16 89.5% Jew_Moroccan + 10.5% Armenia_MLBA @ 4.42
17 59.5% Jew_Moroccan + 40.5% Sicilian @ 4.43
18 72.7% Jew_Moroccan + 27.3% Greek @ 4.43
19 75.9% Sicilian + 24.1% Assyrian @ 4.48
20 73.5% Sicilian + 26.5% Syrian @ 4.5

[Loki]

Troll = troll = sockpuppet. I'll put an end to this.