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Thread: The Greeks really do have near-mythical origins, ancient DNA reveals

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    Default The Greeks really do have near-mythical origins, ancient DNA reveals


    A Mycenaean woman depicted on a fresco at Mycenae on mainland Greece.


    The Greeks really do have near-mythical origins, ancient DNA reveals
    By Ann GibbonsAug. 2, 2017 , 1:00 PM

    Ever since the days of Homer, Greeks have long idealized their Mycenaean “ancestors” in epic poems and classic tragedies that glorify the exploits of Odysseus, King Agamemnon, and other heroes who went in and out of favor with the Greek gods. Although these Mycenaeans were fictitious, scholars have debated whether today’s Greeks descend from the actual Mycenaeans, who created a famous civilization that dominated mainland Greece and the Aegean Sea from about 1600 B.C.E. to 1200 B.C.E., or whether the ancient Mycenaeans simply vanished from the region.

    Now, ancient DNA suggests that living Greeks are indeed the descendants of Mycenaeans, with only a small proportion of DNA from later migrations to Greece. And the Mycenaeans themselves were closely related to the earlier Minoans, the study reveals, another great civilization that flourished on the island of Crete from 2600 B.C.E. to 1400 B.C.E. (named for the mythical King Minos).


    The Lion Gate was the main entrance to the Bronze Age citadel of Mycenae, the center of the Mycenaean civilization.

    The ancient DNA comes from the teeth of 19 people, including 10 Minoans from Crete dating to 2900 B.C.E. to 1700 BCE, four Mycenaeans from the archaeological site at Mycenae and other cemeteries on the Greek mainland dating from 1700 B.C.E. to 1200 B.C.E., and five people from other early farming or Bronze Age (5400 B.C.E. to 1340 B.C.E.) cultures in Greece and Turkey. By comparing 1.2 million letters of genetic code across these genomes to those of 334 other ancient people from around the world and 30 modern Greeks, the researchers were able to plot how the individuals were related to each other.

    The ancient Mycenaeans and Minoans were most closely related to each other, and they both got three-quarters of their DNA from early farmers who lived in Greece and southwestern Anatolia, which is now part of Turkey, the team reports today in Nature. Both cultures additionally inherited DNA from people from the eastern Caucasus, near modern-day Iran, suggesting an early migration of people from the east after the early farmers settled there but before Mycenaeans split from Minoans.

    The Mycenaeans did have an important difference: They had some DNA—4% to 16%—from northern ancestors who came from Eastern Europe or Siberia. This suggests that a second wave of people from the Eurasian steppe came to mainland Greece by way of Eastern Europe or Armenia, but didn’t reach Crete, says Iosif Lazaridis, a population geneticist at Harvard University who co-led the study.


    This dancing Minoan woman from a fresco at Knossos, Crete (1600–1450 B.C.E.), resembles the Mycenaean women (above).
    Wolfgang Sauber/Wikimedia Commons

    Not surprisingly, the Minoans and Mycenaeans looked alike, both carrying genes for brown hair and brown eyes. Artists in both cultures painted dark-haired, dark-eyed people on frescoes and pottery who resemble each other, although the two cultures spoke and wrote different languages. The Mycenaeans were more militaristic, with art replete with spears and images of war, whereas Minoan art showed few signs of warfare, Lazaridis says. Because the Minoans script used hieroglyphics, some archaeologists thought they were partly Egyptian, which turns out to be false.

    When the researchers compared the DNA of modern Greeks to that of ancient Mycenaeans, they found a lot of genetic overlap. Modern Greeks share similar proportions of DNA from the same ancestral sources as Mycenaeans, although they have inherited a little less DNA from ancient Anatolian farmers and a bit more DNA from later migrations to Greece.

    The continuity between the Mycenaeans and living people is “particularly striking given that the Aegean has been a crossroads of civilizations for thousands of years,” says co-author George Stamatoyannopoulos of the University of Washington in Seattle. This suggests that the major components of the Greeks’ ancestry were already in place in the Bronze Age, after the migration of the earliest farmers from Anatolia set the template for the genetic makeup of Greeks and, in fact, most Europeans. “The spread of farming populations was the decisive moment when the major elements of the Greek population were already provided,” says archaeologist Colin Renfrew of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom, who was not involved in the work.

    The results also show it is possible to get ancient DNA from the hot, dry landscape of the eastern Mediterranean, Renfrew says. He and others now have hope for getting DNA from groups such as the mysterious Hittites who came to ancient Anatolia sometime before 2000 B.C.E. and who may have been the source of Caucasian ancestry in Mycenaeans and early Indo-European languages in the region. Archaeologist Kristian Kristiansen of the University of Gothenburg in Sweden, who was not involved in the work, agrees. “The results have now opened up the next chapter in the genetic history of western Eurasia—that of the Bronze Age Mediterranean.”

    *Update, 11 August, 10:23 a.m.: This article has been updated with information to clarify the genetic connection between modern Greeks and ancient Mycenaeans.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/...nt-dna-reveals

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    Although these Mycenaeans were fictitious..
    Fictitious my ass. Archeology backs 100% Greek mythology.

    200 years ago any mentioning of Troy was followed by the adjective mythological. Yet the first serious scientist to deal with Chronology, Eratosthenes, dated the Trojan War around 1200 BC. Eratosthenes was a Scientist, a real one, acting in an environment of intellectual freedom never equaled before or after!

    Homer's description of the astronomical phenomena associated with Odysseus return give even a specific date. 16th April 1178BC.

    Anatolian archives and Archaeology since Schliemann has confirmed quite a lot of Homer's writings. The Historicity of the Trojan war has been proved beyond any doubt. Some of Homer's descriptions are so accurate the historical elements has been established after Archaeology or rather excavating (not mere collecting items) started seriously some 200 years ago. And those elements are constantly increasing with time.

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    The Minoans after 2000 BC were different to Minoans of 2900 BC.

    After 1800 BC the Minoans were a mix of Cretans, Myceaneans and Dorians. Myceaneans= Pelasgians.

    Strabo has the Eteocretans in the south of the island:

    “But one tongue with others is mixed, ”the poet says;“there dwell Achaeans, there Eteo-Cretans proud of heart, there Cydonians and Dorians, too, of waving plumes, and goodly Pelasgians. ” Of these peoples, according to Staphylus, the Dorians occupy the part towards the east, the Cydonians the western part, the Eteo-Cretans the southern; and to these last belongs the town Prasus, where is the temple of the Dictaean Zeus; whereas the other peoples, since they were
    more powerful, dwelt in the plains. Now it is reasonable to suppose that the Eteo-Cretans and the Cydonians were autochthonous, and that the others were foreigners, who, according to Andron, came from Thessaly, from the country which in earlier times was called Doris, but is now called Hestiaeotis; it was from this country that the Dorians who lived in the neighborhood of Parnassus set out, as he says, and founded Erineüs, Boeüm, and Cytinium, and hence by Homer are called "trichaďces." However, writers do not accept the account of Andron at all, since he represents the Tetrapolis Doris as being a Tripolis, and the metropolis of the Dorians as a mere colony of Thessalians;"

    According to Homer they all spoke related dialects.

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    And 30% Slavic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    And 30% Slavic.
    Study proves Slavic DNA in Greeks of Peloponnese little

    Every admixture in Greeks is holy. Bulgarians and Greeks links go back to antiquity. If some of our dna didn't overlap a bit with Bulgarians who have assimilated lots of Greek Thracians I would be worried.

    Concern yourself with the Germanic dna in Italians who by the way also score lots of Slavic in the North. Slavic, 'Slavic' dna in Greeks is nowhere 30%,that's a figment of your imagination.

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    "The results showed that not only do modern Greeks share strong ties with Mycenaeans, but that three quarters of the DNA belonging to the Mycenaean and Minoan samples closely correlated with ancient farmers from Turkey—making them genetic siblings.

    The genetic similarities between modern Greeks and their ancient relatives are “particularly striking given that the Aegean has been a crossroads of civilizations for thousands of years.”
    Last edited by wvwvw; 08-15-2017 at 12:19 AM.

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    So much for Myceaneans destroying the civilization of the Minoans and being unrelated to them, although archeology. history and now genetics shows the complete opposite.

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    "Dr Lazaridis explained that most of the people who created these
    civilizations appear to be local - deriving between 62% and 86% of their
    ancestry from people who introduced agriculture to Europe from Anatolia
    (modern Turkey) in Neolithic times, starting from about 7,000 years ago.

    But the Bronze Age Mycenaean and Minoan skeletons revealed ancestry from
    populations originating in either the Caucasus mountains or Iran.
    Between 9% and 17% of their genetic make-up came from this source.

    In addition, the team's paper in Nature journal reports, the Mycenaeans
    - but not the Minoans - show evidence of genetic input from people who
    lived further north, on the flat grasslands that stretch from eastern
    Europe to Central Asia. Between 4% and 16% of their ancestry came from
    this northern source."

    "By contrast, the researchers found no evidence for proposed migrations
    to Greece from ancient Egypt or from the areas of the eastern
    Mediterranean occupied by the Phoenician sea-faring culture."
    This concurs with the Greeks colonizing Egypt and founding Phoenicia and then returning to Greece as stated by Greek historians. It also concurs with recent DNA studies showing that the 18th Dynasty originated from Greece, Anatolia, and the Levant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ___ View Post
    This concurs with the Greeks colonizing Egypt and founding Phoeniciaand then returning to Greece as stated by Greek historians.
    Very interesting how Greek founded Phoenicia. Do you teach that in your schools?

    Maybe you meant "only Greek historians say that Greeks colonized Phoenicia"?
    "And God said "Love Your Enemy", and I obeyed Him and loved myself." - Gibran Khalil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    And 30% Slavic.
    Irrelevant in this thread

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