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Thread: Which culture, in all of history, was the most Nordid?

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    Default Which culture, in all of history, was the most Nordid?

    By Nordid, I essentially mean a gracilised depigmented Mediterranid - that means no UP (things like Borreby, Brunn, Faelid) or Alpinid admixture.

    Would it be the Hallstatt culture (Not actually Hallstatt Nordid)? Nordic Bronze age (Too much Borreby/Faelid)? Corded Ware culture (I don't think so, as I think CWC is too robust)?

    Also, and perhaps someone could explain, and I understand Coon approximating Hallstatt Nordid as a Corded-Danubian hybrid, but what did the Hallstatt culture have to do with the Corded Ware culture, I thought Hallstatt was R1b?

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    Bump.

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    Veteran Member Fantomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
    By Nordid, I essentially mean a gracilised depigmented Mediterranid - that means no UP (things like Borreby, Brunn, Faelid) or Alpinid admixture.
    There're differences of opinions about origin of Nordids. Lundman for example, unlike Coon, thought that "Corded", the main component of todays Nordids, has nothing to do with Meds. Thereby, in this interpretation, the closest to the original Nordids is Corded Ware culture.

    Would it be the Hallstatt culture (Not actually Hallstatt Nordid)? Nordic Bronze age (Too much Borreby/Faelid)? Corded Ware culture (I don't think so, as I think CWC is too robust)?
    All of these types: Scando,Hallstatt and East Nordids is the one same type actually, and today is the closest to original Nordid type. Coon thought this type associated with Halstatt culture mostly. But Lundman considered it as Northern European type, thats why he called Scando-Nordid. Though Coon wrote that about 500 BC these Nordids together with Keltic-Nordids moved to Scandinavia and tooke a part in ancient Germanic ethnogenesis. So i think both of them are right here. The most Nordic cultures are Eastern Halstatt and Iron Age Germanic cultures, Scandinavian and Jastorf.
    What about depigmented Meds. Most likely Keltic-Nordid/Nord-Med and Nord-Atlantid is the good and maybe the only example of this process. Respectively, ancient cultures that belong to this types can not be considered as the "most Nordid".

    Also, and perhaps someone could explain, and I understand Coon approximating Hallstatt Nordid as a Corded-Danubian hybrid, but what did the Hallstatt culture have to do with the Corded Ware culture, I thought Hallstatt was R1b?
    Corded Ware culture was one of the constituting indirect element that accounted basis for the later cultures of Central Europe, including Halstatt
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    Surely not I1 cultures.

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    Nordic cultures of course. Vikings come to mind.

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    Wth why don't I get notifications about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie Bunker View Post
    Nordic cultures of course. Vikings come to mind.
    Vikings would have had heavy UP admixture (as Tronder was a significant element among the Vikings).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
    There're differences of opinions about origin of Nordids. Lundman for example, unlike Coon, thought that "Corded", the main component of todays Nordids, has nothing to do with Meds. Thereby, in this interpretation, the closest to the original Nordids is Corded Ware culture.


    All of these types: Scando,Hallstatt and East Nordids is the one same type actually, and today is the closest to original Nordid type. Coon thought this type associated with Halstatt culture mostly. But Lundman considered it as Northern European type, thats why he called Scando-Nordid. Though Coon wrote that about 500 BC these Nordids together with Keltic-Nordids moved to Scandinavia and tooke a part in ancient Germanic ethnogenesis. So i think both of them are right here. The most Nordic cultures are Eastern Halstatt and Iron Age Germanic cultures, Scandinavian and Jastorf.
    What about depigmented Meds. Most likely Keltic-Nordid/Nord-Med and Nord-Atlantid is the good and maybe the only example of this process. Respectively, ancient cultures that belong to this types can not be considered as the "most Nordid".


    Corded Ware culture was one of the constituting indirect element that accounted basis for the later cultures of Central Europe, including Halstatt
    About the Corded debate - my understanding is that the Corded people were more robust than modern Nordids, reflecting their Yamna ancestry (who were definitely robust), but Yamna was low-skulled and Corded (if I'm not mistaken) is a lot more high-skulled. How the hell did that come about? Cordeds are basically Yamna with a tiny bit of Neolithic Med. admixture no, surely that's not enough to completely change cranial proportions???

    Also, East Nordid is deffo different to Scando-Nordid and Hallstatt Nordid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamlet View Post
    About the Corded debate - my understanding is that the Corded people were more robust than modern Nordids, reflecting their Yamna ancestry (who were definitely robust), but Yamna was low-skulled and Corded (if I'm not mistaken) is a lot more high-skulled. How the hell did that come about? Cordeds are basically Yamna with a tiny bit of Neolithic Med. admixture no, surely that's not enough to completely change cranial proportions???
    You're going by false "Kurgan hypothesis" and the ensuing opinions of some modern dna researches. In reality Corded Ware and Yamna cultures are very different, either archaeologically and genetically as well. Yamna is EHG+CHG (Iranian EN) and Corded Ware is WHG+ENF basically. So they're result of some local inependent development. Though Coon thought that all of them evolved from Meds, why not. I think there're just amixtures of different groups of WHGs in different proportions in different as well Neolithic basic groups, that gave the todays Nordic result


    Also, East Nordid is deffo different to Scando-Nordid and Hallstatt Nordid.
    Actually, i don't see the big difference between them
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
    You're going by false "Kurgan hypothesis" and the ensuing opinions of some modern dna researches. In reality Corded Ware and Yamna cultures are very different, either archaeologically and genetically as well. Yamna is EHG+CHG (Iranian EN) and Corded Ware is WHG+ENF basically. So they're result of some local inependent development. Though Coon thought that all of them evolved from Meds, why not. I think there're just amixtures of different groups of WHGs in different proportions in different as well Neolithic basic groups, that gave the todays Nordic result



    Actually, i don't see the big difference between them
    How is the Kurgan hypothesis false?

    I do agree that Corded and Yamna are different though, somehow, as Corded is high-skulled whereas Yamna is low-skulled.

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