Ugrofinian lingua franca...

[Turul Karom]

The linguistic studies on Central Asia are extremely scarce.Central Asia is the place the hungarian linguists need to search, starting with Bashkiria.

It's happening more and more now that the Hungarian catastrophes of the 20th century are in the past and there is more freedom to review such things. Finno-Ugric supporters wish to think that Turkic supporters are fighting an uphill battle, but in reality, this is just a posturing technique as it is the other way around. They love to ignore that Finno-Ugric is a controversial language group itself, outside of those who even support Turkic origins, but will never fail to remind you that Magyar as Turkic is "controversial". It is inevitable that Hungarian is seen as a Turkic people and language. It is just a matter of time until the thin sheet of Finno-Ugric ice melts from the scrutiny.

[Lollipop]

You haven't answered my first question. You also haven't presented any evidence that modern linguistics managed to reconstruct the complete PIE language, with its entire vocabulary. Given the geographical and historical proximity of my speculation, it still stands valid, as approximate speculations go, but yet unproven scientifically.

THere is no need for me to answer your question, because in our discussion, it is irrelevant.Magyars language came from Central Asia, not a PIE or pre-PIE zone.Get it though your thick potato head.

[Lollipop]

It's happening more and more now that the Hungarian catastrophes of the 20th century are in the past and there is more freedom to review such things. Finno-Ugric supporters wish to think that Turkic supporters are fighting an uphill battle, but in reality, this is just a posturing technique as it is the other way around. They love to ignore that Finno-Ugric is a controversial language group itself, outside of those who even support Turkic origins, but will never fail to remind you that Magyar as Turkic is "controversial". It is inevitable that Hungarian is seen as a Turkic people and language. It is just a matter of time until the thin sheet of Finno-Ugric ice melts from the scrutiny.

Turanism can be the only nationalist view in Hungary.A hungarian having a non-turanist nationalist view is like a jew having an arab nationalist view.

[Rethel]

And the chief hungolian hater arrived again...

[Dunai]

THere is no need for me to answer your question, because in our discussion, it is irrelevant.Magyars language came from Central Asia, not a PIE or pre-PIE zone.Get it though your thick potato head.

When one cannot support his tesis with evidence, that one's opinion turns obsolete.

[Lollipop]

When one cannot support his tesis with evidence, that one's opinion turns obsolete.

What thesis?I'm talking common sense and logic here, kid.
Your thesis is faulty from start, because your premises are false.

[Dunai]

What thesis?I'm talking common sense and logic here, kid.
Your thesis is faulty from start, because your premises are false.

You cannot dismiss my perfectly valid observation about what we know today about PIE vocabulary without answering what I strictly asked of you. No educated person argues in such superficial way. If you wanna keep our debate on a none-emotional, but rationality-based level first learn the 101s of a debate.

[Rethel]

How many words have been categorized until now as being PIE? You can't be serious that modern linguists managed to map the whole vocabulary of people who spoke PIE. There are still so many words we don't know nothing about and most probably will never know, and might have been spoken by these populations.

Its true.

Words and grammatical features in protolanguage can be divaded on three categories:

1. These which surrvived in many/couple of branches.
2. These which surrvived in one branch/language.
3. These which did not surrvived.

Reconstrucion of proto-language is based only on the first
group, so is logically untrue as a whole reconstruct language.
For example in all IE languages exist some 30 cases. The
reconstruct language has only eight. It is probable, that
had much more than 8. Maybe 10, maybe 20, Maybe 30,
or maybe even more than 30, and these 30 are those who
coincidently did surrvived until recent times. The same is
with words, for example with famous germanic non-IE 1/3
of vocabulary, which was proofed false, and among which
many words can be explain as IE even by dilettantes.

Into addition to these three points which I made
should be also added two others, which include:

4) things, which during long period of time were so twisted, that are not recognizable.
5) Words/features which were developed independently under way, not being common with other branches.

So, such words and features can be native to certain language, but are not counted as such.
So, as in the case of 1/3 of german vocabulary which supposes to not be IE, partialy can be
allready explained as IE, partialy can belong to these groups 4) and 5) - so be IE as well.

And the same can apply to other lingustic families, as Uralic as well.

Most things are probably lost, and those reconstrucions, based on the nr 1) are
obviously only a slight segment of the original IE language and common diversity.

[Turul Karom]

But your pan-Turanist kind live in a bubble. Academia accredited Hungarian linguists agree 100% that Hungarian is a branch of the Uralic language family, and Finnic and Ugric languages are our cousin languages. There is no connection between Hungarian and Turkic languages besides loanwords. Culturally and genetically is another discussion, but that would be off-topic in a linguistic thread.

Bubble? Not at all. Classic case of pot calling the kettle black. The fact you think that 100% of academia accredited Hungarian linguists do no challenge this shows it is your perspective that must be expanded, which of course since I am willing to engage in this talk, also illustrates how I am just as interested in your evidence as well.



This is Marácz László. He has a PhD in linguistics, and works in the university of Amsterdam. He emphasizes the critical flaws in the theories put forward by Sajnovics, illustrating that it was never even translated into Hungarian. Marácz László states and postulated that the classification of Magyar as a Finno-Ugric language was based on political reasons.

Angela Marcantonio The Uralic language family. Facts, myths and statistics.

Juha Janhunen: The internal uniformity of
the Ural-Altaic complex is not annulled by the fact that the reconstructed proto-
languages represent a slightly simplified picture due to the potentially distort-
ing effect of the comparative method (Korhonen 1974).


http://www.sgr.fi/sust/sust258/sust258_janhunen.pdf

....the list goes on and on for Uralic criticism, but according to you, these people do not exist. Also, that rapid thumbs down is a bit telling. Come on now, don't even want to give what I have a read? I've read the counter-critique of Angela Marcantonio by Johanna Laakso, and the counter-counter-critiques of Johanna Laakso as well. But please, do go on about the "100% of professional linguists agree..." propaganda.

Turanism can be the only nationalist view in Hungary.A hungarian having a non-turanist nationalist view is like a jew having an arab nationalist view.

Many non-nationalists are also Turanists. Turanism transcends Hungarian identity as commonly seen by the West. By the very nature of Turanism, it is not exclusively nationalist or even "conservative" through the modern Western lense. Turanid is culture branching from the Turkic Central Asians from the Eurasian steppes. For example, many Anatolian Turks that are Turanic in mindset sometimes shun the Arabization of their country in favor of old Turkic themes. This is one of the reasons you see so many nationalists in Turkey at odds with the government, despite the current government being seen as conservative, which is usually seen by the west as a nationalist refuge. Consequently, the issue in Turkey cannot be extrapolated into other Western nations without understanding the Islamization of Turks, their secularization under Atatürk, and the re-Islamization of the country today (with the help of largely non-Turkic peoples). It is something I try to talk about at great length with many Anatolian Turkish posters here.

Anyway, I appreciate your interest in this subject.

[Rethel]

Hungarians as Turks

1. What with Chanti and Mansi according to you?
2. Do you not taken unto account, that Hungarian can be independent branch among supposedly Uraloaltayans?