Age of consent

[lei.talk]

Well I used to think 16 was too old until I found out my 16 year old cousin was screwing a 21 year old. Love to have his ass arrested like the predator he is, but alas, it's legal.

I'm sorry, no adult who dates a teenage girl is not a creep, since most teenage girls have low self-esteem and are easy to take advantage of.

your experience is a strange contrast
to the teen-aged girls
that have routinely approached me for sex
over the past thirty-five years.

they are intelligent, self-confident and frustrated
by their chronological peers:

early in the conversation,
they always complain that
"Boys my age are so-o-o immature/dumb/inexperienced! "

occasionally accompanied with
"They just don't understand women."

perhaps, your cousin had similar frustrations?

[Sunray]

The age of consent is a funny thing. It is a law which is broken all the time, even though the consequences of getting caught weigh heavy. The sex offender's register is no place to be, and does not differentiate between the 16 year old sleeping with his 1 year younger girlfriend and the paedo. Thankfully where sexual behaviour transgresses the law but not our society's definition of 'fine' it is very unlikely the transgressee will be handed up. Of course in a diverse society where 'fine' is wildly variant this helps less. Still 16 seems about the point where the vast majority are developed enough for sex, even if when I was younger 15 was more normal. Indeed it was seen as important to give consent before the legal age, but not too much before - very British rebelliousness.

[Agrippa]

I'm sorry, no adult who dates a teenage girl is not a creep, since most teenage girls have low self-esteem and are easy to take advantage of.

That's not the problem of the male, if a female is sexually mature, it is interesting and if the parents and relatives didn't raise her otherwise, to not have any sex at all, it is just normal for a male "to try it", even more so if being approached by the female. That's a normal biological functionality.

If you don't want it, you must raise the girls to not do it and to not agree on a sexual relationship with an older man. If they do agree, you can't blame the male unless he used "strange methods" for a person which is disable in one way or another.

Most girls at the age of 16+ aren't though and that's a reasonable age in my opinion.

14 is an option, but there are still many unclear cases in that age category, so one would have to make an individual based decision rather, whether a person is sexually mature or not, so 16 is already higher, but the more secure standard.

Below 14 is no option for European Europids in any case, because too many are sexually and mentally immature, individual differences can't change that if it's about making general rules.

So I'd say 14 for males to the age of 21, otherwise individual evaluation in critical cases and 16 as a general age of consent regardless of the partner's age.

[Sunray]

your experience is a strange contrast
to the teen-aged girls
that have routinely approached me for sex
over the past thirty-five years.

they are intelligent, self-confident and frustrated
by their chronological peers:

early in the conversation,
they always complain that
"Boys my age are so-o-o immature/dumb/inexperienced! "

occasionally accompanied with
"They just don't understand women."

perhaps, your cousin had similar frustrations?

When they say this they are trying to impress. Translation: 'I am mature enough for you despite the age difference.'

[Agrippa]

When they say this they are trying to impress. Translation: 'I am mature enough for you despite the age difference.'

Women always try to get the status males and fact is, biologically, females have their best age earlier than males and can't achieve much more later in life. Whereas a male matures later, just compare 14 year old girls and boys, the difference is usually just HUGE if talking about sexual and mental maturation., and PROVES his abilities later in life.

A younger male might "promise" success for a female, but a successful mature male HAS PROVEN IT, whereas the same is completely irrelevant for a female, which is sexually mature and fertile from a certain age on and that's it.

If you reduce things to the sheer biological facts that's what everything is about. If a female is genetically and memetically programmed to go for the status male, the natural choice will be, on average, the older bloke.

Many people say the females just go for the money, but in fact, if a young and good looking male goes for an old female, it should be much more often just the money than vice versa, because as I said, the successful status male has proven "something" - at least from an ethological point of view - for the female too, the older female on the other hand can't offer anything for biological success than money and ressources alone since her fertility will definitely lower to gone.

And going on in the same pattern, youth is a much more important criteria for females than males. So a female below average for her age group, has still an advantage for older males.

What I saw quite often are highest level young and old males with highest level young females and higher level older males with medium level younger ones.

You get the deal again? She can't get a male of that niveau at her age, but she can get the older male of a higher niveau which has basically the same traits and genes, probably even PROVEN his abilities to care and provide, being socially successful, surviving the time, being materially better off and so on.

I can just wonder if people question those very basic principles of human sexual behaviour and social-biological selection, try to pathologise normal behaviour of both sides, as if there are just perverted-wicked older males and disoriented girls doing what they do...

What I really wonder about is that there seem to be different female strategies in that regard, be it by genetic or memetic reasons, or both. Because some go primarily to only for younger males, some don't differentiate and others prefer older ones.

The "fatherless syndrome" alone seems to be insufficient, I guess there is more going on in that normal differentiation among females. I observed such differences even among siblings at times and the way they came to their preferences remains - to a certain degree, still a mystery to me.

[Sunray]

Instinctively I believe you are mostly right, minus girls maturing faster after 16.

Evolutionary psychology does not explain everything, however. I do not formally date girls say 18/19. I would feel very awkward introducing such girls to my friends especially other girls. They would ascribe the results of such actions as me being unable to get over my ex properly.

Then again I wonder whether that is because I am closer to 18 and have a natural need to distance myself from that age, and my female friends' comments would derive more from being threatened than anything else.

[Agrippa]

Instinctively I believe you are mostly right, minus girls maturing faster after 16.

Evolutionary psychology does not explain everything, however. I do not formally date girls say 18/19. I would feel very awkward introducing such girls to my friends especially other girls. They would ascribe the results of such actions as me being unable to get over my ex properly.

That are social norms, they can be very influential and change like the weather...

Then again I wonder whether that is because I am closer to 18 and have a natural need to distance myself from that age, and my female friends' comments would derive more from being threatened than anything else.

Most males at the age of lets say 14-16 I knew dreamt of older women too, because older meant "the ideal age" = 17-25 for Europeans.

In fact, regardless of being younger or older, a male should prefer, by default and without considering other factors and traits, that "ideal age".

Whether you have a girl which is 17 or 25 is only important for the period she is "in the ideal age", if she is 17, she is for 8 years in that category and this is also the age ideal for biological reproduction obviously.

Needless to say, if the social norm tells you that the age of 18 is "strange" for chosing your mate, you can still go for a 20-25 in your age and even take an older one without trade-offs.

minus girls maturing faster after 16

Females mature (maximal) to about 17-19 - males 21-23 if it's about the growth too, about maturation in general:

The beginning of the increase in growth velocity is about age 11 in boys and 9 in girls but varies widely from individual to individual.

The peak height velocity occurs at a mean of 13.5 years in boys and 11.5 years in girls.

Pubertal growth accounts for about 20% of final adult height, a total averaging 23-28 cm in females and 26-28 cm in males.

The average growth spurt lasts 24-36 months.

Growth during the year of PHV in the normal female averages 9 cm/yr and varies normally from 5.4 cm to 11.2 cm. In the normal male, the PHV averages 10.3 cm/yr and varies normally from 5.8 cm to 13.1 cm.

Males on average are 12-13 cm taller than females primarily because of the 2-year delay in bone closure as compared to females. This accounts for about a 10-cm difference between the two sexes; in addition, males also have 2-3 cm more of growth during their growth spurt.

http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/H...ontent/a1.html

On average, female growth velocity trails off to zero at about 15 years, whereas the male curve continues for approximately 3 more years, going to zero at about 18. These are also critical periods where stressors such as malnutrition (or even severe child neglect) have the greatest effect.



Average (50th percentile) growth curves for male and female 0-18 years

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...wthCurveMF.JPG

[themandylion]

The age of consent should be one year after the first menstruation AND when the parents reasonably decide the young lady is mature enough for such a decision, OR, age 16, whichever comes first.

That said, sex between a willing girl who has reached puberty and a male should never be classed as "child molestation." Though a true predator should be subject to the father's will.

[Agrippa]

The age of consent should be one year after the first menstruation AND when the parents reasonably decide the young lady is mature enough for such a decision, OR, age 16, whichever comes first.

That said, sex between a willing girl who has reached puberty and a male should never be classed as "child molestation." Though a true predator should be subject to the father's will.

It is worth to mention that the age of sexual maturity is not the same between races, populations, climatic and geographical regions, nutritional status, individual differences and over time.

F.e. in the past the first menstruation came much later - before secular acceleration - than now and this was more true if the individual had serious diseases, malnutrition and/or lived in a colder climate area.

So there are really significant differences between individuals, based on different factors. Some are really sexually mature at the age of 13, others about 17 even, it really depends on the exact traits and circumstances.

Just to make the topic more complete.

What's true for the physical sexual maturity is also true for the mental development, though some people never reach the niveau of many 13 year old even at the age of 30 and beyond of course, which is also part of the "individual variation"...

[The Lawspeaker]

Right now it's 16 in the Netherlands and I think that that's realistic (it could be set on 15 for all I care because I believe in "steps towards adulthood."). The rate of teenage pregnancies is rather low here in the Netherlands (the lowest in all of Europe) because of a culture of openness and the relative easy access to sexual education (although in my experience those living in immigrant communities, conservative areas AND juvenile care facilities should be specifically targeted for improvement as those are risk groups. The same goes for those sleeping with migrants.)