What if Turks had never existed?

[Böri]

BTW Svyatoslav and Rus' didn't destroy Khazaria alone. They were in alliance with the Oghuz Yabghunate. Rus attacked from the west and Oghuz from the east and that's how Khazar fell.

History of Civilizations of Central Asia (vol.4,part-1) - S.G. Agajanov


Actually most of the job done by Oghuz in fact

[Svipdag]

There would be be no 'Turkish delight". HORRORS !

[Bobby Martnen]

Were it not for Turks, Islam wouldn't be so spread.
From the 11th century, with the succesful First Crusade, it's always Turks who fought for the survival of Islam. Were it not for Turks, Islam wouldn't be a major World religion and it would most certainly be stuck in the Arab deserts, being a small religions. If Islam is so spread, it has directly to do with Turks spilling their blood so many centuries throughout different continents and countries.



Were it not for Turks, the Crusading European powers would easily crush the Muslim nations as early as in the High Middle Ages.

Yes, and that's why the world would be a better place today if Turks never existed.

[Böri]

Yes, and that's why the world would be a better place today if Turks never existed.

What makes your Xtian religion exists, it's antagony with other religions. Just like an ethnicity survives by identifying itself in contrast to other ethnicities, Abrahamic religions also exist through this contrast. If the Christians had finished the job of those 'mostly brown, Muslim ethnicities by the end of the Middle Ages following succesful waves of military operations, maybe Christianity would have dominated the whole world by the 17th century but later, it would socially lose ground as the people would seek for something different.
However, the Xtian clergy controlled its subjects through the centuries by reminding them there are non-Christian people living in the world. Human psychology seeks for element which would make him different, people are happy when they feel they are different and there is smth which makes them different than the mass.
Look how Soviets fell apart as the standardization of Soviet subjects somehow defied that reality you have in the human nature.

[MinervaItalica]

3) The fall of Constantinople and the beginning of Renaissance movement:

Were it not for Turks, probably Eastern Rome would never fall, or even if it would fall it would have continued to be Roman city. If Turks had never captured Constantinople, the Byzantine thinkers, scholars, artists would have never settled Italy and maybe the new European era of Renaissance would not happen or delay.
So the strong influence of the Church would probably lasted longer, if Turks didn't trigger the Renaissance.

The Byzantine Empire was already basically finished after the Fourth Crusade. Ottomans just gave the final blow to a weakened nation. Yes, Byzantine scholars contributed (in part) and sparked the Renaissance but they weren't essentials. It was mostly thx to the Italian scholars and the patronage of the Italian noble families in Florence and Rome. So, it's hard to say that it would not happen... even less delayed. Not to mention that Italian Renaissance was already started in the late Middle Ages (with Dante) in Italy.

Probably the influence of Venice and Genoa in Greece and Levant would have lasted longer. Without Turks many regions in East Europe and Balkans would have remained free from Islam influence.

[Hudayar]

Turkish people have an inferiority complex because they are genetically and in terms og phenotypes pred. Middle Eastern, but they are ashamed of it and they want to be Turkic (semi-Mongoloid people).

[Hudayar]

Hello Turkish Middle Eastern scum!

Kurds look like Turks, both are genetically pred. Levantine people.

Turkish people are very few Turkic, you mostly look like Kurds and Armenians (you are short people with black hair/eyes, Levantine facial feature, dark skin and bent noses), deal with it Middle Eastern dirty imbecile.

it seems you know a lot about us. But how do you know about us? Do you see Turks in your country? Or a better question, how many Turks do you see in your mother's bedroom? Could you please tell me about their numbers and phenotypes? Thank you.

[Joachim]

A=Böri;4652119]What makes your Xtian religion exists, it's antagony with other religions. Just like an ethnicity survives by identifying itself in contrast to other ethnicities, Abrahamic religions also exist through this contrast. If the Christians had finished the job of those 'mostly brown, Muslim ethnicities by the end of the Middle Ages following succesful waves of military operations, maybe Christianity would have dominated the whole world by the 17th century but later, it would socially lose ground as the people would seek for something different.
However, the Xtian clergy controlled its subjects through the centuries by reminding them there are non-Christian people living in the world. Human psychology seeks for element which would make him different, people are happy when they feel they are different and there is smth which makes them different than the mass.
Look how Soviets fell apart as the standardization of Soviet subjects somehow defied that reality you have in the human nature.[/QUOTE]

Old thread but,why do turks love using words like "brown" or "brown people" as an insult?
I have seen Turks doing this on twitter,in YouTube comments,on this site.

Do Turks think they are some epitome of whiteness??
Have u seen what your altaian and tuvan brothers look like?
They look mongoloid Pakistanis and they all have light brown olive skin.

Same with uighurs who are medium brown.
While there are millions of Syrians,Lebanese, berbers who look whiter than 99% of turkey's MENA Anatolian population.

It's not so binary and simple as you make it seem so.

You turkified anatolians who look white do so because of Your Balkan and west asia Ancestry,not because of your 20% turkic Ancestry .

Also,what lies are you spewing?
Turks spread Islam?
Maybe in Balkans and anatolia when they converted your Christian Anatolian Ancestors.
But arabs were the ones who converted Persians, Tibetians,berbers, iberians,visigoth and french.
Not you.

And without turks Islam would never survive?
What poison are you reading form turk nationalist sources?

"Brown people" like moroccans defeated heavily armored porteguese white Christians so bad that the porteguese empire fell for 100 years and was taken over by Spain.
And they didn't get any ottoman help.
Brown moroccans and algerians were even defeated British siege forces.
Meanwhile "white Turks" were getting but¢ered in the Balkans by swarthy greeks and bulgarians.
Turks also fled from Algeria like cowards from the French and Arabs and berbers were the ones who put resistances.
Even in the middle east ,you fled like cowards when Ataturk retreted and surrendered to British on the Palestine front.
And don't come up with excuses like muh arapler rebelled against Turks.
Only a few saudi beoduins reblled,90% of levantine Arabs supported Ottomans.

It was Ataturk the coward who fled like a girl from Britain giving away Palestine to the Zionist British and Jews.
Without ataturk's cowardice,Palestine won't be under jewish rule today.

Palestinians should blame their unfortunate condition on Turks and Ataturk cowards.

Also,there are 2 major ethnicites which converted other ethnciies to Islam.

Arabs and tajiks.

Arabs converted iberians,visigoths,berbers,black Africans, levantines while tajiks converted Pakistanis,indians,bangladeshi,Turks,Mongols,chine se hui.

Turks played a very minor role.

And Constantinople was sieged by Arabs before and was already conquered by crusader Italians.
The only reason Turks won was because of Byzantine had declined and hungarian craftsmen provided them with cannons,even the canon wasn't made by Turks.

And the people who conqured Constantinople were Balkan ethnic janissary converts.
Not you,stop taking credit for other people.
Your ancestors were backward anatolian nomadic peasants,they didn't do sh$$.

Domt you know how much ottomans hated anatolian yoruk peasants?
Etrek bi idrak
Ese turk
Kebe turk
Many othee insults


The ottoman army and generals were mostly converted Balkans as can be seen that the major part of ottoman army were janissary infantry who used firearms,and ottomans won because of them.
Everybody knows janissaires were converted Christian balkanites,not Turks.
The other part of ottoman army was the sipahi cavalry and these were mostly recruited from the Balkan timariots too
And the most elite cavakey which defeated the Christian and protected the sultan was the kapikuli elite cavalry which was recruited by the devshirme system similar to janissaires.
The only role ethnic Turks played a role in ottoman army were the akinci horse archers who were irrelevant and weak in front of 15-17th century Christian forces who were heavily armed and resisted the arrow shots easily.

Even the ottoman naval victories were because of converted balkanites like the barbarossa brothers,dragut Reis who were converted albanian-greeks.

And even in 18th century,balkanites dominated the ottoman Empire,when The Albanian Muhammad Ali and his son conquered half of the Ottoman Empire and was only stopped by white British


Balkanites were the elites of the empire being the vizier,grand vizier,generals,officers,soldiers while ethnic pesant Turks like you were backward peasant low class nomads who were irrelevant except for paying a few taxes.

There's an official document on reddit for ottoman hungarian war and 90% non janissary soldiers are from Balkans, especially Croatia,Bosnia,Albania.
Egyptians are 5% while turks are 2%.

Even in 19th century,the elite was Balkan as seen in the young Turks revolt who deposed Abdul Hamid who had a Georgian mother.

Turks naybe played a 10% role in ottoma empire.
They only played a role majory in rhe early small ottoman emirate and even then the army was led by Balkan greeeks like gazi evrenos bey who defeated the byzantines.
Even in crusade of Varna And nicopolos,the Serbian elite Muslim kapikulu guard defeated the Christians while Turks were still living in anatolian huts.

And brown people like tipu sultan the Muslim Indian was defeating the white British forces while Turks were getting dominated by britain.
So much for muh without turks,Europeans would have conquered and converted all brown muslims.
The brown Afghans were fighting the British and Russian forces whil central asian Turks got conquered by Russian Empire in months.

The Turks were obedient to communist rule while the Soviet federation fell just because of a few mountain dwelling brown pashtuns.
And its only because of brown pashtun And Pakistani muslims,your turkic central asian brotjers are free, without them they would still be under Russian rule as Turks are too weak to resist and fight russia.

Brown Pakistani and Indian muslims took freedom from british imperialism without turk help.
They even sent billions of dollars to Ottomans which you kemalists and secularists stole.

And brown Arabs the ones who spread Islam and conquered as far as France and central asia
You don't know about the abbasid siege of Constantinople?
Greeks surrendered and agreed to a treaty And abbasids didn't care about conquering Constantinople as they were more education oriented and instead asked for Ptolemy's book almagest.
Arabs were already deep in science despite coming from beoduin lifestyle while Turks were still living in yurts.
Abbasids declind because of turkic generals who backstabbed them,it was similar to praetorian guard of rome.
As for Shias and Sunnis, without seljuks,someone else would have full in the gap most likely Sunni tajik ghorids and samanids and the Kurdish Sunni marwanids who were already fighting shia Arabs.
You give yourself too much credit.


And Kurdish Sunnis and tajik Sunnis were already fighting the Shias ,Turks played no role until later.
The Sunni seljuk turk state was destroyed politically with assasinations by the shia Persian and arab hashashins.
Seljuks could barely conquer the arab shia fatimids.
Even the crusaders were defeated by Sunni forces of the kurd saladin who also conquered fatimids and set up the mamluk system which brought in circassian and Balkan slaves like the greek sultan lajin who would defeat crusaders again.
Yes,Turks played a role but you are overstating it and diminishing the role of others.
If mamluks defeated Mongols Because of Turks,why did Kipchaks and cumans lose to Mongols in the first place?
Mongols genocided 80% of kipchak turk population,and sold remaining to slavery,so much for Turkish warrior race and superiority.
The mamluk army was 40% kipchak,40% circassian and 20% balkan and Coptic.
Even the Kipchaks were mostly turkified scythians considering the details of their distinct appearance with blondism.


Turkish nationalis are so cringe,muh we protected Muslim world from white christians��
Turks couldn't protect themselves in balkans,russia and central asia How could they protect others?
Turkish golden horde state was destroyed by white Christian Russians while brown moroccans defeated porteguese Christians easily

And also for Huns,they weren't Turks but rather yeniseian people like kets,pumopokol.
The elite was yeniseian and the army was Iranic scythian, sarmatians.
Keep in mind AlL Iranic nomads had 30-50% bmac Ancestry and were Close to Iranic Parthians,east Iranics like tajiks and pashtuns close osest genetic matches to sarmatian and west scythians are tajiks.
Those who match with chuvash are mixed with east asians so the gedmatch is showing them as chuvash.
Dosent mean they spoke turkic or worshipped tengri.


So,you didn't cause the fall of Rome, stop altering history

Even xiognu and Huns weren't turki,a xiognu hunnic poem and text has been found in China and it was in the yeneiseakn language,so are many words like Khan,khatun,tengri,khagan,shanyu


Also,you anatolians are barely 20% turkic on average, western Turks with 30% turkic are a minority in Turkey.
On pca you Turks plot with Georgians and Armenians and Kurds.
You have nothing much to do with real Turks like gokturks,10-20% Ancestry dosent make you a gokturk just like 20% British Ancestry dosent make black africans into British europeans
If anatolians and azeris with 10-20% turkic Ancestry can claim to be gokturks,can black african with 20% British German Ancestry claim to be Nazi and bri'ish generals and soldiers?
Because this is what you are doing.
Also Your Gokturks With 70,000 S Combined With Hepthalites Force of 40,000 was defeated Persians under the general bahram chibin with a minor force of 20,000-30,000 .
Bahram also captured many of the escaping Turks and sold them to slavery.
This is how weak your gokturks were that they couldn't defeat an outnumbered force.
Later,bahram was deposed by jealous Sassanid Shah and bahram went to turkic states and saved the life of turkic Khan by his brother' s assasination conspiracy.
BahRam Himself died due To assassination By sassanids
Turgesh Khanate fell because of Arabs
Turgesh And Khazar Turks Also got Defeated by Bedouin arabs who Had no knowledge of How To fight against nomadic horse archers with their arab light and medium cavalry.
Even still turks got defeated many times by arabs
Imagine what they would have done with proper knowledge of nomadic warfare and how to counter it.
Even your seljuks got defeated later by byzantines who reconquered many western anatolian provinces..seljuks would have been decimated by the regrowing byzantines until the crusaders betrayed byzantines in 4th crusade

I hat€ turkic Nationalists So much
Your shitty post inspired me to write this long rebuttal

[Joachim]

Bump

[Joachim]

What makes your Xtian religion exists, it's antagony with other religions. Just like an ethnicity survives by identifying itself in contrast to other ethnicities, Abrahamic religions also exist through this contrast. If the Christians had finished the job of those 'mostly brown, Muslim ethnicities by the end of the Middle Ages following succesful waves of military operations, maybe Christianity would have dominated the whole world by the 17th century but later, it would socially lose ground as the people would seek for something different.
However, the Xtian clergy controlled its subjects through the centuries by reminding them there are non-Christian people living in the world. Human psychology seeks for element which would make him different, people are happy when they feel they are different and there is smth which makes them different than the mass.
Look how Soviets fell apart as the standardization of Soviet subjects somehow defied that reality you have in the human nature.

Old thread but,why do turks love using words like "brown" or "brown people" as an insult?
I have seen Turks doing this on twitter,in YouTube comments,on this site.

Do Turks think they are some epitome of whiteness??
Have u seen what your altaian and tuvan brothers look like?
They look mongoloid Pakistanis and they all have light brown olive skin.

Same with uighurs who are medium brown.
While there are millions of Syrians,Lebanese, berbers who look whiter than 99% of turkey's MENA Anatolian population.

It's not so binary and simple as you make it seem so.

You turkified anatolians who look white do so because of Your Balkan and west asia Ancestry,not because of your 20% turkic Ancestry .

Also,what lies are you spewing?
Turks spread Islam?
Maybe in Balkans and anatolia when they converted your Christian Anatolian Ancestors.
But arabs were the ones who converted Persians, Tibetians,berbers, iberians,visigoth and french.
Not you.

And without turks Islam would never survive?
What poison are you reading form turk nationalist sources?

"Brown people" like moroccans defeated heavily armored porteguese white Christians so bad that the porteguese empire fell for 100 years and was taken over by Spain.
And they didn't get any ottoman help.
Brown moroccans and algerians were even defeated British siege forces.
Meanwhile "white Turks" were getting but¢ered in the Balkans by swarthy greeks and bulgarians.
Turks also fled from Algeria like cowards from the French and Arabs and berbers were the ones who put resistances.
Even in the middle east ,you fled like cowards when Ataturk retreted and surrendered to British on the Palestine front.
And don't come up with excuses like muh arapler rebelled against Turks.
Only a few saudi beoduins reblled,90% of levantine Arabs supported Ottomans.

It was Ataturk the coward who fled like a girl from Britain giving away Palestine to the Zionist British and Jews.
Without ataturk's cowardice,Palestine won't be under jewish rule today.

Palestinians should blame their unfortunate condition on Turks and Ataturk cowards.

Also,there are 2 major ethnicites which converted other ethnciies to Islam.

Arabs and tajiks.

Arabs converted iberians,visigoths,berbers,black Africans, levantines while tajiks converted Pakistanis,indians,bangladeshi,Turks,Mongols,chine se hui.

Turks played a very minor role.

And Constantinople was sieged by Arabs before and was already conquered by crusader Italians.
The only reason Turks won was because of Byzantine had declined and hungarian craftsmen provided them with cannons,even the canon wasn't made by Turks.

And the people who conqured Constantinople were Balkan ethnic janissary converts.
Not you,stop taking credit for other people.
Your ancestors were backward anatolian nomadic peasants,they didn't do sh$$.

Domt you know how much ottomans hated anatolian yoruk peasants?
Etrek bi idrak
Ese turk
Kebe turk
Many othee insults


The ottoman army and generals were mostly converted Balkans as can be seen that the major part of ottoman army were janissary infantry who used firearms,and ottomans won because of them.
Everybody knows janissaires were converted Christian balkanites,not Turks.
The other part of ottoman army was the sipahi cavalry and these were mostly recruited from the Balkan timariots too
And the most elite cavakey which defeated the Christian and protected the sultan was the kapikuli elite cavalry which was recruited by the devshirme system similar to janissaires.
The only role ethnic Turks played a role in ottoman army were the akinci horse archers who were irrelevant and weak in front of 15-17th century Christian forces who were heavily armed and resisted the arrow shots easily.

Even the ottoman naval victories were because of converted balkanites like the barbarossa brothers,dragut Reis who were converted albanian-greeks.

And even in 18th century,balkanites dominated the ottoman Empire,when The Albanian Muhammad Ali and his son conquered half of the Ottoman Empire and was only stopped by white British


Balkanites were the elites of the empire being the vizier,grand vizier,generals,officers,soldiers while ethnic pesant Turks like you were backward peasant low class nomads who were irrelevant except for paying a few taxes.

There's an official document on reddit for ottoman hungarian war and 90% non janissary soldiers are from Balkans, especially Croatia,Bosnia,Albania.
Egyptians are 5% while turks are 2%.

Even in 19th century,the elite was Balkan as seen in the young Turks revolt who deposed Abdul Hamid who had a Georgian mother.

Turks naybe played a 10% role in ottoma empire.
They only played a role majory in rhe early small ottoman emirate and even then the army was led by Balkan greeeks like gazi evrenos bey who defeated the byzantines.
Even in crusade of Varna And nicopolos,the Serbian elite Muslim kapikulu guard defeated the Christians while Turks were still living in anatolian huts.

And brown people like tipu sultan the Muslim Indian was defeating the white British forces while Turks were getting dominated by britain.
So much for muh without turks,Europeans would have conquered and converted all brown muslims.
The brown Afghans were fighting the British and Russian forces whil central asian Turks got conquered by Russian Empire in months.

The Turks were obedient to communist rule while the Soviet federation fell just because of a few mountain dwelling brown pashtuns.
And its only because of brown pashtun And Pakistani muslims,your turkic central asian brotjers are free, without them they would still be under Russian rule as Turks are too weak to resist and fight russia.

Brown Pakistani and Indian muslims took freedom from british imperialism without turk help.
They even sent billions of dollars to Ottomans which you kemalists and secularists stole.

And brown Arabs the ones who spread Islam and conquered as far as France and central asia
You don't know about the abbasid siege of Constantinople?
Greeks surrendered and agreed to a treaty And abbasids didn't care about conquering Constantinople as they were more education oriented and instead asked for Ptolemy's book almagest.
Arabs were already deep in science despite coming from beoduin lifestyle while Turks were still living in yurts.
Abbasids declind because of turkic generals who backstabbed them,it was similar to praetorian guard of rome.
As for Shias and Sunnis, without seljuks,someone else would have full in the gap most likely Sunni tajik ghorids and samanids and the Kurdish Sunni marwanids who were already fighting shia Arabs.
You give yourself too much credit.


And Kurdish Sunnis and tajik Sunnis were already fighting the Shias ,Turks played no role until later.
The Sunni seljuk turk state was destroyed politically with assasinations by the shia Persian and arab hashashins.
Seljuks could barely conquer the arab shia fatimids.
Even the crusaders were defeated by Sunni forces of the kurd saladin who also conquered fatimids and set up the mamluk system which brought in circassian and Balkan slaves like the greek sultan lajin who would defeat crusaders again.
Yes,Turks played a role but you are overstating it and diminishing the role of others.
If mamluks defeated Mongols Because of Turks,why did Kipchaks and cumans lose to Mongols in the first place?
Mongols genocided 80% of kipchak turk population,and sold remaining to slavery,so much for Turkish warrior race and superiority.
The mamluk army was 40% kipchak,40% circassian and 20% balkan and Coptic.
Even the Kipchaks were mostly turkified scythians considering the details of their distinct appearance with blondism.


Turkish nationalis are so cringe,muh we protected Muslim world from white christians��
Turks couldn't protect themselves in balkans,russia and central asia How could they protect others?
Turkish golden horde state was destroyed by white Christian Russians while brown moroccans defeated porteguese Christians easily

And also for Huns,they weren't Turks but rather yeniseian people like kets,pumopokol.
The elite was yeniseian and the army was Iranic scythian, sarmatians.
Keep in mind AlL Iranic nomads had 30-50% bmac Ancestry and were Close to Iranic Parthians,east Iranics like tajiks and pashtuns close osest genetic matches to sarmatian and west scythians are tajiks.
Those who match with chuvash are mixed with east asians so the gedmatch is showing them as chuvash.
Dosent mean they spoke turkic or worshipped tengri.


So,you didn't cause the fall of Rome, stop altering history

Even xiognu and Huns weren't turki,a xiognu hunnic poem and text has been found in China and it was in the yeneiseakn language,so are many words like Khan,khatun,tengri,khagan,shanyu


Also,you anatolians are barely 20% turkic on average, western Turks with 30% turkic are a minority in Turkey.
On pca you Turks plot with Georgians and Armenians and Kurds.
You have nothing much to do with real Turks like gokturks,10-20% Ancestry dosent make you a gokturk just like 20% British Ancestry dosent make black africans into British europeans
If anatolians and azeris with 10-20% turkic Ancestry can claim to be gokturks,can black african with 20% British German Ancestry claim to be Nazi and bri'ish generals and soldiers?
Because this is what you are doing.
Also Your Gokturks With 70,000 S Combined With Hepthalites Force of 40,000 was defeated Persians under the general bahram chibin with a minor force of 20,000-30,000 .
Bahram also captured many of the escaping Turks and sold them to slavery.
This is how weak your gokturks were that they couldn't defeat an outnumbered force.
Later,bahram was deposed by jealous Sassanid Shah and bahram went to turkic states and saved the life of turkic Khan by his brother' s assasination conspiracy.
BahRam Himself died due To assassination By sassanids
Turgesh Khanate fell because of Arabs
Turgesh And Khazar Turks Also got Defeated by Bedouin arabs who Had no knowledge of How To fight against nomadic horse archers with their arab light and medium cavalry.
Even still turks got defeated many times by arabs
Imagine what they would have done with proper knowledge of nomadic warfare and how to counter it.
Even your seljuks got defeated later by byzantines who reconquered many western anatolian provinces..seljuks would have been decimated by the regrowing byzantines until the crusaders betrayed byzantines in 4th crusade

I hat€ turkic Nationalists So much
Your shitty post inspired me to write this long rebuttal.