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Thread: First of October 2017, Catalunya independence referendum.

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    Default First of October 2017, Catalunya independence referendum.


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    The regional Government of Catalonia has set a referendum on Catalan independence for 1 October 2017.[1] This referendum was first called for in June 2017 and was approved by the Catalan parliament in a session on 6th September 2017 along with a law which states that independence would be binding with a simple majority, without requiring a minimum turnout.[2] Opposition parties have called on their voters to boycott the vote, except Podemos who supported participation and Catalunya Sí que es Pot who chose to abstain.[citation needed] According to the Spanish Constitution, the referendum is illegal.[3] It was suspended by the Constitutional Court on 7 September 2017, with the Catalan government stating the court order was not valid for Catalonia and proceeding to gather the support of 750[4] of 948 municipalities of Catalonia,[5][6][7] including a partial support by Barcelona.[8] This led to a constitutional crisis in Spain.

    The Government of Spain opposes any Catalan self-determination referendum,[9][10] maintaining that the Spanish Constitution does not allow for a vote on the independence of any Spanish region while also deeming it illegal without its consent;[11][12] an interpretation also favoured by the Catalan Statutory Guarantees Council.[13] On the other hand, the Catalan government invokes the right to self-determination for calling the referendum. So far, the Catalan government has tried but failed to get international support; in particular, Spain’s European partners see Catalonia’s status as a strictly internal matter.[14]

    Following a constitutionality check demanded by the Spanish government, the Constitutional Court of Spain annulled the resolution emanated by the Parliament of Catalonia to hold such a vote.[15] The Government of Catalonia, though, maintains that the vote will still be held; in this regard, on 9 June 2017, Puigdemont announced it for 1 October.[1]

    The Catalan government had aimed to thwart legal action on behalf of the Spanish government by rushing a referendum law through its own parliament, by simple majority, in September[14] declaring that it would then follow a "Catalan-only" legality (as opposed to the general Spanish one). Spain’s deputy prime minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaria, had notified the Catalan government in advance that the state would strike down the referendum law right after it was passed.[14]


    EDIT
    Poll added, vote people.

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    Spain crisis: 'stop this radicalism and disobedience,' PM tells Catalan leaders

    Mariano Rajoy says region must stop ‘escalating’ independence standoff after thousands protest at police raids government buildings in Barcelona


    Sam Jones in Madrid and Stephen Burgen in Barcelona

    Thursday 21 September 2017 03.51 BST
    First published on Wednesday 20 September 2017 09.02 BST

    Spain’s prime minister has called on Catalan separatist leaders to end their “escalation” as several thousand people took to the streets of Barcelona to protest at Madrid’s attempts to stop a banned referendum on independence.

    “Stop this escalation of radicalism and disobedience once and for all,” Mariano Rajoy said in a televised statement on Wednesday night as protesters remained in the centre of the city after a day-long demonstration.

    Catalonia’s president earlier accused the Spanish government of suspending the region’s autonomy after police intensified efforts to stop a vote on independence that has sparked one of the worst political crises since Spain’s return to democracy four decades ago.

    Spanish Guardia Civil officers raided a dozen Catalan regional government offices and arrested 14 senior officials on Wednesday as part of an operation to stop the referendum from taking place on 1 October.

    Carles Puigdemont, the head of Catalonia’s pro-sovereignty government, described the raids as a “a co-ordinated police assault” that showed that Madrid “has de facto suspended self-government and applied a de facto state of emergency” in Catalonia.

    He also appeared to draw a parallel between the raids and the repression and abuses of the Franco dictatorship, tweeting: “We will not accept a return to the darkest times. The government is in favour of liberty and democracy.”

    Speaking after an emergency ministerial meeting, Puigdemont vowed the poll would go ahead.

    “We reaffirm our peaceful response,” he said. “The Spanish government has crossed a red line and become a democratic disgrace.”

    The mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau, called the raids “a democratic scandal” and said Catalans would defend their institutions.
    Tensions between Madrid and Barcelona have escalated rapidly over recent days as the government of the Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, attempts to make good its promise to stop the vote.

    On Wednesday morning, Spain’s interior ministry announced it was cancelling leave for all the Guardia Civil and national police officers tasked with preventing the referendum. In a statement, it said the affected officers would have to be available between 20 September and 5 October, but added the period could be extended if necessary.

    in his TV address, Rajoy called on Catalonia’s regional leaders to cancel the referendum on the grounds that it goes against Spain’s laws. “Don’t go ahead. Go back to the law and democracy. This referendum is a chimera,” he said.
    The raids come a day after the Guardia Civil confiscated referendum documents from the offices of a private delivery firm in the Catalan city of Terrassa. More than 1.5m referendum leaflets and posters have also been seized.

    The Catalan high court said that police acting on a judge’s orders had searched 42 premises on Wednesday – including six regional government offices – adding that 20 people were being investigated for alleged disobedience, abuse of power and embezzlement related to the referendum.

    The regional government confirmed that Josep Maria Jové, secretary general of economic affairs and an aide to the Catalan vice-president, and Lluis Salvado, the secretary of taxation, were among those arrested.

    The Spanish interior ministry said that police had confiscated nearly 10m ballot papers. Polling station signs and documents for electoral officers were also seized during a raid on a warehouse in a small town outside Barcelona.

    The Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont. Photograph: Andreu Dalmau/EPA

    As news of the arrests emerged, a crowd began to gather outside the finance ministry, one of the targets of the raids. By mid morning the crowd had swelled to more than 2,000 people blocking Gran Via, one of Barcelona’s principal thoroughfares.

    By late afternoon, under the clatter of surveillance helicopters and with a heavy police presence, the angry but peaceful rally had grown to some 5,000, with hundreds more people joining as they finished work or got out of school.

    The crowd, breaking into the Catalan national anthem and waving placards reading “We are voting to be free,” began by chanting “No tinc por” (I’m not afraid) – the slogan used in response to last month’s terrorist attacks in the city.

    But the chant was soon replaced by a new cry: “Occupation forces out!”

    Smaller demonstrations were being held in other parts of the city, blocking major roads and causing traffic chaos. The mood was tense and very different from the party atmosphere at the million-strong pro-independence rally a little over a week ago.

    Catalonia is mainly policed by the local Mossos d’Esquadra. The paramilitary Guardia Civil, strongly associated in some people’s minds with the fascist dictatorship, is rarely seen in the region.

    There were steel barriers and a heavy police presence outside the Palau de la Generalitat, the seat of the Catalan government, on Wednesday. Outside the finance ministry, Joan Tardà, a Catalan MP, appealed for calm.

    “They’re trying to derail us,” he told the crowd. “Our strength lies in being resolute, but in a civilised and peaceful manner.”

    Catalan police officers try to disperse protesters in Barcelona Photograph: Pau Barrena/AFP/Getty Images
    Rajoy’s government argues that any referendum on Catalan independence would be illegal because the country’s 1978 constitution makes no provision for a vote on self-determination.
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    The Spanish constitutional court, which has suspended the referendum law pushed through the Catalan parliament earlier this month, is looking into whether the law breaches the constitution.

    Speaking on Wednesday morning, the prime minister defended the government’s actions, saying Puigdemont and his supporters were trying to “eliminate the constitution” and were ignoring the law.

    “Logically, the state has to react,” he said. “There is no democratic state in the world that would accept what these people are trying to do. They’ve been warned and they know the referendum can’t take place.”

    The raids signal a significant escalation of Madrid’s efforts to stop the vote from proceeding – as do remarks from the Spanish foreign minister, who has accused some separatists of using a “Nazi” approach to intimidate Catalan mayors opposed to secession.

    “Referendums are a weapon of choice of dictators,” said Alfonso Dastis in an interview with Bloomberg in New York on Tuesday. “These people actually are taking some Nazi attitudes because they are putting up posters with the faces of mayors who are resisting their call to participate in this charade.

    “A referendum isn’t the same as a democracy. Gen Franco organised two referendums.”

    Spain’s finance ministry has also launched a crackdown on the regional government’s finances, limiting new credit and requiring central supervision for payment of non-essential services.

    Although more than 70% of Catalonia’s 7.5 million people are in favour of a referendum, surveys suggest they are almost evenly split on the issue of independence.

    A survey two months ago showed 49.4% of Catalans were against independence while 41.1% were in favour.

    More than 80% of participants opted for independence in a symbolic poll three years ago – although only 2.3 million of Catalonia’s 5.4 million eligible voters took part.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...referendum-row

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    Europe
    The Latest: Spain’s PM warns Catalan officials to drop vote


    By Associated Press September 20 at 3:55 PM

    MADRID — The Latest on independence efforts in Spain’s Catalonia region (all times local):

    9:30 p.m.
    Spain’s prime minister is warning Catalan leaders of “greater harm” if they don’t drop plans for an independence referendum that national authorities consider illegal.

    Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said in a televised statement on Wednesday night that holding the Oct. 1 vote in violation of the Spanish Constitution is a “totalitarian act.”

    Rajoy said. “Disobedience of the law by a part of the political power is the opposite of democracy.”

    His remarks came as thousands of people remained in the streets of Catalonia’s capital, Barcelona, to protest the government’s intensifying efforts to stop the referendum.

    Police arrested a dozen regional officials and seized 10 million ballot papers on Wednesday.

    Addressing Catalan officials, the prime minister said: “If you care about the tranquility of most Catalans, give up this escalation of radicalism and disobedience.”

    He warned: “You are on time to avoid a greater harm.”
    ___

    7:45 p.m.

    Around 500 people are marching in central Madrid to support the Catalonia region’s bid to hold a referendum on independence from Spain and criticizing the government for launching a crackdown to stop the vote.

    The protest in Madrid’s Sol Square mirrored those in Barcelona and other Catalan cities that brought thousands to the streets on Wednesday following police raids and the first arrests so far of regional officials.

    Spain’s Constitutional Court has suspended the vote as it assesses its legality.

    Police watched protesters, including representatives of left-wing and nationalist parties, as they chanted slogans against the conservative government of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy.

    Police also disbanded a handful of right-wing protesters that showed up with Spanish flags to call for the country’s unity.

    ___

    4:50 p.m.

    Barcelona Football Club says it condemns anyone trying to halt Catalonia’s plan to hold a secession referendum next month.

    The world-famous soccer club issued a statement Wednesday after Spanish authorities intensified a crackdown on the region’s preparations for an Oct. 1 vote that Spain says is illegal.

    Regional authorities have vowed to go ahead with the vote despite the arrests on Wednesday of at least 12 regional officials and government workers.

    In the statement, Barcelona says it “condemns any act that may impede the free exercise of these rights.”

    The club also says it “will continue to support the will of the majority of Catalan people, and will do so in a civil, peaceful, and exemplary way.”

    ___

    3:50 p.m.

    Spain’s Interior Ministry says police have seized nearly 10 million ballot papers that Catalan regional authorities planned to use in the Oct. 1 independence referendum, which Spain says is illegal.

    A ministry statement said police also confiscated polling station signs and documents for voting officials in a raid Wednesday on a warehouse in a small town outside Barcelona.

    The raid came as part of an ongoing police and judicial operation by Spanish authorities to try to halt the referendum called by the pro-independence Catalan government.

    Catalonia has about 5.5 million eligible voters. Polls consistently show the region’s inhabitants favor a referendum but are roughly evenly divided over independence from Spain.

    ___

    2:10 p.m.

    Catalan pro-independence supporters have scuffled with Spanish Civil Guard officers escorting a government official arrested as part of a crackdown by national authorities on Catalonia’s plans to hold a secession referendum.

    The protesters tried to block the officers as they took Xavier Puig away from the headquarters of the region’s department of external affairs in downtown Barcelona. Puig, the IT manager in the department, was one of at least 12 officials arrested Wednesday in police raids.

    The protesters tried to block a police vehicle and some scuffles ensued. There were no reports of arrests or injuries.

    Several hundred people are protesting the arrests and shouting pro-independence slogans in different parts of Barcelona and other Catalan towns.

    The National Catalan Assembly civic group — the driving force behind the secession push — is calling on residents to rally peacefully on the city’s Las Ramblas boulevard.

    ___

    1:20 p.m.

    Spain’s Interior Ministry says time off and vacation will be suspended for Civil Guard and National Police officers assigned to ensure that the Constitutional Court’s halting of Catalonia’s planned independence referendum is heeded.

    A ministry statement said the measure will run initially from Wednesday until Oct. 5 — four days after the planned referendum, which Spain says is illegal and won’t be allowed.

    The ministry said the measure would apply to those officers stationed in the northeastern region and those to be deployed there. It gave no details on the number of people involved.

    ___

    1:10 p.m.

    The leader of Catalonia says Spain is showing a “totalitarian attitude” with the arrests of Catalan officials and civil servants but is vowing to go ahead with an independence referendum despite legal warnings not to do so.

    Carles Puigdemont appeared with members of his cabinet Wednesday following several arrests in an ongoing operation by Civil Guard agents. Those arrested include a top official managing the region’s economic affairs.

    Puigdemont says the police operations are unlawful and are aimed at preventing Catalans from voting on Oct. 1.

    The vote has been suspended by Spain’s Constitutional Court while judges consider the central government’s claims that it is illegal.

    Puigdemont also says that the central authorities moves amount to a “de facto” suspension of Catalonia’s self-rule.

    ___

    11:45 a.m.

    Spain’s Finance Ministry says it has imposed further controls of the Catalan government’s finances to ensure no public money is used for a planned Oct. 1 vote on the region’s independence that Spain says violates the constitution.

    Finance Minister Cristobal Montoro signed an order late Tuesday that limits new credit and requires central authorities’ supervision for every payment of non-essential services in the northeastern region of Catalonia. The decision came after Catalan officials failed to voluntarily agree to the controls.

    With the latest measure, virtually all Catalan spending will be in the hands of Madrid. The finance ministry took over the direct payment of basic services such as education, health and civil servants’ salaries last week.

    Regional officials have vowed to hold the referendum on Catalonia’s secession from Spain despite fierce opposition from the central government and a suspension order by the Constitutional Court.

    The prosperous Catalonia region, whose capital is Barcelona, generates a fifth of Spain’s economy. The region’s 7.5 million inhabitants are nearly evenly divided over independence.

    ___

    11:05 a.m.

    News reports says Spanish police have arrested 12 people in raids on offices of the regional government of Catalonia as a crackdown intensifies on the region’s preparations for a secession vote that Spain says is illegal.

    Spain’s Europa Press news agency and other media outlets said the raids Wednesday mostly targeted the region’s economic and foreign departments as Spanish authorities worked to halt all preparatory moves for the planned Oct. 1referendum.

    Hundreds of people gathered to protest the raids and shout pro-independence slogans outside offices in the region’s capital, Barcelona.

    The Catalan regional government confirmed Josep Maria Jove, secretary general of economic affairs, was among those arrested.

    Police and judicial authorities would give no details on the operation, saying a judge has placed a secrecy order on it.

    ___

    10:10 a.m.

    World News Alerts

    Breaking news from around the world.

    The Catalan regional government says that a top official in the management of the region’s economic affairs has been arrested as a crackdown intensifies on preparations for a secession vote that Spanish authorities have suspended.

    The arrest of Josep Maria Jove, secretary general of economic affairs and number two to the region’s vice president Oriol Junqueras, took place on Wednesday morning as agents of Spain’s Civil Guard searched the premises of the regional department of economy, a spokeswoman with the institution said.

    A spokesman for Junqueras confirmed the arrest and said that other Catalan government premises were being searched by the agents. Both officials declined to be identified by name, following internal protocol.

    The central government is waging myriad legal battles to halt the Oct. 1 referendum called by the pro-independence coalition ruling Catalonia, in northeastern Spain.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.aef7c164528d
    Last edited by Laberia; 09-21-2017 at 07:33 AM.

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    Separatist supporters mass outside Barcelona top court
    21 SEPTEMBER 2017
    Protesters gather outside Supreme Court in a show of support for next month's planned independence referendum.
    Pro-independence supporters have gathered outside Barcelona's top court for a second consecutive day, protesting against the Spanish government's attempts to block a referendum on Catalonia's split from Spain.
    The demonstrations began after Spanish authorities, which outlawed the vote scheduled for October 1, detained on Wednesday 14 regional officials and seized referendum materials, including some 10m ballot papers, in an unprecedented raid of regional government offices.

    The protesters on Thursday packed the Barcelona boulevard connecting Arc de Triomf and Parc Ciutadella, two popular tourist attractions, waving signs reading "Stop dictatorship" and "We want to vote".

    OPINION: Why Catalonia should be given a say on its future

    "Certainly, the people here are saying they are not going anywhere," Al Jazeera's Karl Penhaul, reporting from the protest site in Catalonia's main city, said.

    "They have been chanting slogans such as, 'The streets are ours', a clear determination that they think that one of the ways they can force through this referendum, despite the growing police action, is to try and mobilise, get out there and maintain a presence in these public spaces."

    Among those detained was Josep Maria Jove, Catalonia's junior economy minister.

    Penhaul said that two of the detained were released overnight, but the other 12 were "still facing possible charges of trying to organise and facilitate a referendum that the state prosecutors are calling illegal".

    Acting under court orders, police also raided printers, newspaper offices and private delivery companies in a search for campaign literature, instruction manuals for manning voting stations and ballot boxes.

    On Thursday, Catalan leaders acknowledged for the first time that plans to hold the referendum were now in doubt.

    "It is obvious that we won't be able to vote as we would have liked," Oriol Junqueras, deputy head and economy minister of the regional government, told local television TV3.

    "They have altered the rules," he said, adding, however, that he was convinced voters would still turn out in numbers.

    OPINION: The case against Catalan secession

    On Wednesday, Catalonia's President Carles Puigdemont said the government's actions imposed a "de facto" state of emergency and denounced the "totalitarian and undemocratic attitude of the Spanish state".

    Later in the day, Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy denounced the referendum as undemocratic and called for Catalonia's pro-independence leaders to "stop this escalation of radicalism and disobedience once and for all" in a televised statement.

    Spain's constitution grants the central government exclusive power to hold referendums.

    Polls show about 40 percent of Catalans support independence although a majority want a referendum on the issue.

    Source: News agencies

    http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/20...105242786.html

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    bump. Vote people.

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    This should be clear, i don't support secessionism but they seem really determined plus they have all the qualities to take care for themself. Let them split if they want.

    Even if they won't be able to do it today, Catalans will always feel a different ethnicity compared to other Spaniards. They will probably vote again in the future if this fails so just Free Catalogna.

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    This referendum may be constitutionally illegal, nobody can deny that there's a problem in the Spanish house, unique in Europe. "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation. Every house or city divided against itself will not stand." (Matthew 12:22-28 - the last part was famously quoted by Abraham Lincoln).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    bump. Vote people.
    What for ? The referendum is for Catalan people, what do we have to do with it ?

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