Somebody had asked me about INDOEUROPEANS, so I did answer like that...

[Rethel]

I am confused. Why do you look at R1 so much?

Becasue I am one too.

There are many people who are R1.

Yea, and what?
If they would be 1000 times less numerous would it change something? Why?

Africans, Asians, Europeans.

Yea, we are everywhere! Isn't it great!?

I am not sure if it is possible to consider them all brothers.

I do not have to consider them or not. They just are who they are.
They are all descendants of one IE forefather, the same white as black.
They did not choose their skin colour - so it is not their fault.

It is impossible to tell without a DNA test.

Unfortunatly, but should be.
Only becasue it is not, we have to use DNA test.

Even then, they can lie about the results.

Why?

I do not see much brotherhood potential here.

This is the only senseable brotherhood - when you are related.
What is a sense in brotherhood between coincidental temporal groups of people?
The sense in such is temporal and coincidental, when there is a need.
But people are created as creatures with inheritable identity.
This is the final one - prototribe, which has one separated
language, ancestor, place of living and often race.

If you have none such inheritable identity, you was not taught, you did not
learn or you have broken the instinct - then it can be non-understanable for
you, but it is like 99% of humanity of all times lives and thinks.

[Rethel]

If they were 1000 times smaller, it would make a stronger bond.

So, do you suggest, that 1.5 bln Han people have a weak bond?

Smaller would foster closeness.

Not necessarly.
But what, if they would have to many children?
Should they aborted them to stay close? IF lets
say, the Frisians, would be 100 mln people, they
wouldnt be Frisians any more?

How do you know they are all from one IE person?

Because this is the point in Y-hg importance: that they
are descendants in prime line of one guy, who was the
founder of the tirbe which contained only his descendants.

In Africa, or Asia?

So what? If you would marry a negro woman
or a japanese, the children wouldn't be yours?

Many Turkic people then (Uyghurs, Turkmens, etc) are either R1a or R1b. Are they all brotherly as well?

They are Indoeuropeans as well. Altayized Iranians and Tocharians.
But according to the persian legend, Turks were originaly IEs at all.
Ironically, first turkic kaganate was also created by IEs, so who knows.
So, whatever. However was on colective level, the R1 turkic speaking
individuals always were, are and will be Indoeuropeans.

Since we cannot tell without a DNA test, I do not understand why it would be relevant.

Becasue it is a fact, which should be known without tests, and
normal people are anchor in the history. You talk, as we would
be born just today without any past and history, from nowhere.

The reason someone would lie is because if testing for R1 was mandatory, and they wanted to be part of the “tribe”, they could bribe someone or lie about it.

If it would be mandatory, then everyone would
have official results, so no possiblity of lying.

Btw - I would support such mandatory tests, becaue the whole
point is in that, to not lie or pretending to be someone who is not.
The best tool to fight wannabism of any sort, is to test Y. I always
was against wannabeism, and always will be. This is another reason
why I suppost so much Y testing. Not only becasue are so very much
relevant, but also are the best weapon against every wannabe retard.

If Hitler would be tested and treated according to the result,
we would never have WW2 - or at least such genocidal war.

I don't see a prototribe

Prototribe was small. Then grew in numbers, invaded other territories aso.

because it is so large and too diverse culturally to be a tribe.

Chinese or Hindian people are also, and what?
Btw, we are not diversed so much culturarly.
Mainstream IEs belong to the european civilisation on every continent.
Iranians are culturarly arabized - so it is not IE culture, and such people
like Reza Pahlavi wanted them to join culturaly the Europeans; India is
actually broken by some local harappian/dravidian shit, so it is also not
IE per se. And more than that - IE culture is now a global culture, so
even non-IEs are actuallty living in her.

Why Bantu negro E1 from Nigeria can speak english and live like Westerner, but
when I am talking about R1 IE guy from the same country - it is unimaginable?
Much more it is apropriate for R1-IE than for E1-Bantu local, isn;t it?

How do you see R1 being grouped in the future?

It would be fine, if we would return to estate state, when every group
could live side by side as it was for example in historical Poland. IEs
lived separetly, Hamites also, Semites as well, also other groups like
Germans, Armenians, Jews, Tatars aso - noone was bothering anyone.

IEs - polish nobility were the only group oficially recognized as descendants
of IE forefather so actually they could be called IE group (I just got it!! )

Hamites - peasants were consider oficaially as descedndants of Ham,
and until this day in our vocabulary ham means a pleb person. Today
we would say: E1 Semites - mostly Jews, i.e. J1.

If you could, would you have all R1 people living together?

It would be nice, but becasue of all history - no. I do not want to destroy the history.
Funny thing is, that the very characteristic of IEs is the fact, that we are constantly
speading across the World. Other groups are rather local. Almost all. Only T hg is
not in one place, but they seems to be scattered (like Jews or Gypsies ) rather than
spreading. Whatever other group you choose they have rather one place of living.

If you are willing to go back that far, then why not consider every human haplogroup a brother, because we all have at least one common ancestor.

Very good point, the key one.
Of course I consider every human a brother, becasue we are brothers, and we are descendants of one ancestor.
But we are also divided on nations, tribes, clans and families. It doesn;t mean, that I am not a brother of a Chinese.
It just means, that I am a human brother from different brotherly household. Household, which was given separated
language and identity. My children will be mine - but my brother's children will belong to his line. And as we two
are brothers, two lines will be brotherly ones, then they will be separated anyway. Sometimes such line is gaining
separated sub-name, and makes a subhouse in one family. Fore example Rethelites are divaded in many such
smaller houses, like a gens Julia was in nacient Rome. But Ceasars did not consider other Juliuses foreigners, no,
they were the same gens, but from different branches. So, humanity has also different branches according to the
different forefathers (who were brothers) separated by different languages, identity, families, races and culture.

The hg-relevant-level is the basic and farest unit which can be achived, defined and kept. The more, than anything
else later started of that stage are (IN Indoeuropean case; not necessarly in the case of others) mixes, so actualy
the level of IEness is the only level which can be clearly defined by patrilineal descend of one forefather. Others can
be also, but cannot be from one forefather. For example, I according to my knowledge, patrilinearly am a German, but
Germans cannot be define as descendants of one forefather (or at least we do not know about it). But culturaly they
were, as Poles or Scots were also - Poles of Jawan, Scots of Magog - and many other european nations. Similarly I
belong to polish Sarmatians who also do not have one ancestor, but who are inheritable patrilinearly. The same is with
Prussians, which are still alive becasue of their patrilinear memory. I cannot be one of them, even if I would want to,
even if I would like to resurrect their language and culture. Becasue I naver was a Prusian, and if I would pretend to be,
it would be wannabeism and stupidity. And they have obviously many different hgs and subclades. So, a you see, I am
more glue to the principle, than to hg. But in the case of IEness (or other prototribes) the descendency is clearly from
one common forefather - and this is what gives to that the most sense at all and what makes it a worthy to fight for.

And becasue of that, the oldest known paper ancestor is not enaugh anymore - as it was yet 20 years ago.
Btw, I always wanted to know from which group I am, and I even intelectually developed such possiblity of
checking by some genetic test - not even knowing, that I will live to see this possible. I did