Pontid are not an Eastern version of Atlanto-Med

[Mordid]

Pontid are not Mediterranean, they are Nordid-Iranid. Atlanto-Med are tall version of Mediterraneanid.
Now, i'm going to tell you why Pontid are not Mediterranean and why Atlanto-Med are Mediterranean. There are huge difference between them.

"Pontics" of the Central-Eastern Europe are descendants of Iranic stock and they are "North-Iranids" in the classification of dr. Engel (this term actually is much more correct).

Atlanto-meds has wide long faces, robust chins and robust bone structure while Pontid has quite long narrow face, moderate chin and much more leptosome bone structure And Pontid are more lighter while Atlanto-Med are darker.

P.S. Nord-Iranids (Pontid) are not represent Mediterranean in racial stock but "Aryan" (in classical meaning) stock.

[Mordid]

I found this in Slavic forum. The translate is probably confusing but i'm sure you get this point.

Pontian group populations

Pontian (Black Sea = = srednekubansky) Bunak 1932 = adyghe Abdushelishvili

Origin
Pontus anthropological type was first isolated Bunakov (Bunak, 1932) in the population of the North Caucasus. Bunak described this type as a special option in the Mediterranean branch of the Caucasoid race, and suggested that the Circassian peoples are fragments of an ancient population in the North Caucasus.

Bunak (1953)
... most likely hypothesis, which describes sogasno element represents one of the branches of an ancient group of tribes of Asia Minor, which spread along the Black Sea coast and penetrated to the North Caucasus in the Neolithic (Pontic type).


Bunak (1965)
Isolated by us in previous works Pontic type as a special kind of Mediterranean-type range of basic anthropological section of the population of the Western Caucasus, and the more southern areas (V. Bunak, 1946, 1956). Similar forms are installed and the Western Balkans in the Neolithic (O. Necrasov, 1959).


Alekseev (1974)
Pontian population groups represented in the Abkhaz-Adyghe peoples, emerged in the Mediterranean branch of the Caucasoid race without the participation of the northern branch of the impurity. The basic process of its formation - a massive gratsializatsiya protomorphic kavkasionsky type. Saving features protomrfnogo type in a mountainous isolation explains the difference between the Pontic type of kavkasionsky in the degree of massiveness.

As for the Pontic type, then it may be, is a systematic one less volume and lower taxonomic level than kavkasionsky.


Abdushelishvili (1964)
Repeat, broad elements paleoanthropological materials has not, but all known to date paleoanthropological series from the Caucasus are characterized by a narrow face, and in general one (or at least similar) anthropological type (Mediterranean). Moreover, by using modern crania series Adzharians, the Abkhazians and Circassians (Shapsughs) The vast majority of paleoanthropological series Caucasus, as noted above, is quite closely linked with the Mediterranean race, and more than likely with the type of Pontus Mediterranean race. Thus, we see no need to explain the origin of the Pontic options through the restructuring of any anthropological types (especially those, which in the actual material does not).


Abdushelishvili (2003)
However, we do not agree with that part of the hypothesis VP Alekseeva, which states that the type of Pontiac is the result of gracilization ancient, massive options presented in kavkasionsky type. In our opinion, the establishment of the Pontian (in this case Adyghe) type is the result of the development of local thin-faced and long-headed paleoanthropological types, whose roots can be traced quite clearly in the ancient crania series with the Caucasus.


Facts to consider when discussing hypotheses Alexeev and Abdushelishvili

Gerasimov, Tikhonov (2003)
Since the North-West Caucasus in the most powerful and widely represented dolihokranny thin-faced version, VP Alekseev in its time (1963) suggested a significant contribution Alan component in addition Adyghe peoples of the Western Caucasus. However, he considered it paradoxical. With the advent of new materials, this conclusion does not seem so. Along with the archaeological evidence we have and paleoanthropological evidence of integration processes in the North Caucasus, which took place here under the sign of Alan dominant.

Ethnic Groups
Adygeys (abazdehi, chemgui, bzhedugi and Shapsugs Kuban), Circassian (besleneevtsy and Zelenchukskie) Kabardian, Abazins, some Ingush, kryztsskie, urumskie and Georgian territorial groups

Characteristics (at Abdushelishvili, 1964, 2003)

* Mezokefalnaya head shape
* Average longitudinal diameter of the head
* Average length of the body
* Average (or slightly above) physiognomic height of the face
* Small width of the forehead
* Weak development of the beard (in the Caucasus scale)
* The small diameter of the zygomatic
* Big thick lips
* Horizontal position of the tip of the nose
* Small width of the palpebral fissure (the Caucasus scale)
* A high percentage of availability of the folds of the upper eyelid
* Moderately light hair color (in the Caucasus scale)
* Low percentage of dark eyes (higher than average percentage of light eyes)
* Direct cartilaginous profile and slabovystupayuschy bone profile of the nose

South Atlantic group of populations

"... Suggest the possibility of self-selection" average European "sub-race - a focal point of the transition zone between the blondes and brunettes Baltic Mediterranean.
The western part of the same chain, undoubtedly, is the Atlantic race, Dedicated More Denikerom, tall, with dark hair, but light or mixed eyes narrow leptoprozopnym face and straight nose. Within this sub-race is usually singled out two options: a light and high - the North Atlantic - and more dark and low - South Atlantic. The first option is typical for the Western Britain (Wales), northern Scotland, western Norway.
The second common on the Atlantic coast of the Iberian Peninsula, France and Ireland ... "

"... Thus, the evidence leads us to conclude about a possible merger of Pontus, the average European and Atlantic groups in the taxonomic unit of the highest order, which can be called" atlanto-Black Sea "race. Of course, such a union will remain suspended until the issue is not resolved on the origin of all these moderately depigmented, transitional forms, which are now geographically and morphologically, and merge with one hand, with light severnoevropeyskimi forms, and the other - with the dark complexes of the Mediterranean ... "

(C) "Proceedings of the Institute of Ethnography of Maclay"

The most typical example of the inhabitants of the Atlantic coast of south-western Europe are the Basques ...

• Pigmentation of the eye (in south-western France): dark colors (dark brown and brown) - 41-42%, while light shades - 10-15%. In general, dominated by dark-mixed colors (green-brown, yellowish-brown, etc.).

Similar trends mezotsefalii, medium-tall, reddish hair and the predominance of mixed dark eye pigmentation characteristic of the northern Portuguese Galicians and asturiytsev.

In his early works of Bunak, combining elements of both the typological and population-based approach that emphasizes the following characteristics, typical for the population of the South Atlantic area (Atlantic coast of the Iberian Peninsula, France and Ireland):

• Height - 167-170
• cranial index - 79-81 (mezotsefaliya)
• Face Index - 85-86
• The concentration of light iris - less than 20-40%

Representatives of the South Atlantic group of populations: Basques asturiytsy, Galicians, northern Portugal, the south-western Irish, south-western French.

[Mordid]

Compare Atlanto-Med to Pontid (Nord-Iranid) :

[Mordid]

Pontid

tonkokostnoe physique without a tendency to be overweight, mezokefaliya with underdeveloped soft tissues of the face, narrow face and high, dark pigmentation of hair, pretty light skin, mixed pigmentation of eyes and tall stature (men - above 180 cm for girls - about 173 or higher ), high skull, a narrow forehead, a little narrow slit eyes, a lighter pigmentation than mediterranidy as a whole.

Atlanto-Med

redneshirokoe high person profiling the average person robustny chin, light olive skin, easily falls tan, medium height, black hair, brown eyes, sometimes - blue and blue-green, robust physique

Atlanto-meds/atlantids have (just like dinaroids) wide long faces, robust chins and robust bone structure.

[Mordid]

Pontid example :
Russian :





Ukrainian :

[Mordid]

Polish :

[Mordid]

Atlanto-Med example :

[Mordid]

There are some pseudo Pontid in Western Europe, Just like HIM (Spaniard) - Alberto Ramos Gutierez:

He has typical Pontic (North-Iranic) face: too prolongated, narrow and somewhat cheekboneless.
May be phenotypes like his can be connected to the some Alanic settlements in Northern / Eastern Spain.

[Wyn]

Is this a real thread? Is this actually happening?

[Mordid]

Is this a real thread? Is this actually happening?

Errr, it is. I'm trying to make people see the difference between Pontid and Atlanto-Med. I dont know why most people consider Pontid to be an eastern Atlanto-Med even there are quite difference between them.