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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin
Anatolia was at one point closer to Sardinians than to the people there today, so it is not far fetched at all.
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OK.So,let me understand something.
Greeks scoring west asia=due to minoans and myceneans(people who come from anatolia/caucasus).
Greeks scoring high east med=due to farmers from near east.
Those west meditteraneans are the mix of neolithics from anatolia with WESTERN HUNTER GATHENERS?
I still dont understand the fucking admixtures in this country.....
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If you read herodotus he tells you that the aegean islands was first inhabited by the carians according to the cretans. And the cretans used them to man ships instead of paying tribute. Until the Ionians drove them back to asia. Mean while Carians claimed they have always had been in Caria. So its likely carians came from caria and then moved the agean. Next the Ionians drove them out. Also the lycians are decended from minoans. But they got pushed back to anatolia.
But it was common for Carians to mix with greeks also. Which was noted by herodotus.
Edited. Also herodotus was half carian on his mothers side. He was from anatolia.
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Sure and that doesn't discredit anything I just said.
I said modern mainlanders are genetically 1/3rd of the way to Northern Europe as compared to Bronze age Greeks. And that's exactly what the data, based on full genome sequencing of ancient samples shows.
lf Mycenaean/Bronze age Greeks are 0 and Northern-Eastern Europeans are 10..then modern mainlanders are about 3-4 on that scale. They deviate in a Northern direction. Again I didn't say this necessarily comes from Slavic expansions during the Middle ages, certainly some of it will but also Iron age and Classical Greeks could be closer to modern Greeks than Bronze age Greeks were.
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I disagree that the rest 30% has to be Slavic.
Maybe you can call it Steppe or Yamnaya that would be still better but its not the same thing with Slavs
Its a common source of ancient ancestry shared with Slavs among other Europeans
"Northwest European admixture: 10-15% all of Greece, 15-20% North-West Greece."
"East European admixture: 5-10% Aegean islands, 10-15% mainland Greece, 15-20% North-East Greece."
Read more: http://hellas2010.proboards.com/#ixzz5UnsGaMkI
The Talmud tells us that the only language the Torah could be translated into elegantly is Greek.
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Ok i think i misunderstood you here or read your first post wrong
What you said is that modern Mainland Greeks are about 1/3 shifted to Northern Europe when compared
to Mycanaeans not that that Northern Europeans are closer to modern Mainlanders about 1/3 than Mainlanders
are to Mycanaeans.
My main point is that modern Mainland Greeks and Islanders share roughly the same amount of Mycanaean ancestry circa 70%
But shift away from Mycanaeans into different directions in the case of Mainlanders its North ,in the case of Islanders it may be not that clear
they have some Northern admixtures as well but less so than Mainlanders and on the other hand more recent South shifted admixture
be it from the Levant,Anatolia other Med Islanders or South Italians ,whatever.
In the case of Islanders and South Italians it the Northern and the East Med admixtures may cancel each other out and they may therefore appear closer
to Mycanaeans.
But i don't think there is a difference in the amount of real ancestry or DNA directly inherited from Mycanaeans between Islands/South Italy and Mainland Greeks.
That the Non Mycanaean parts of DNA in Mainland Greeks is more North shifted doesn't make them less Mycanaean than their Island cousins.
And i think there is one thing we both can agree on
The North shiftedness in Mainlanders is only partialy due to Slavic influence
Last edited by Tauromachos; 10-24-2018 at 12:51 AM.
The Talmud tells us that the only language the Torah could be translated into elegantly is Greek.
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Let's talk about something more interesting and speculative, like The Romans.
Here's a very interesting plot i got from Eurogenes/Davidski. So check out the Bronze age Northern Italian Bell Beakers, quite distinct from Northern European and Central European Bell Beakers, but none the less carry a very significant Bronze Age Steppe component. A steppe component that was not in Italy during the earlier Remendello culture [who are overwhelmingly EEF] Is there any doubt these Beakers spoke Indo-European?..considering the steppe component how could it be any other language family? These could be the earliest ancestors of the Latins and other Italic tribes in Italy IMO. And no they're not genetically Northern or Central European...just a more northerly South European population similar to Spanish and Northern Italians of today.
There has yet to be any genetically Northern European population show up in Bronze Age Italy yet in the Ancient DNA record. So my guess is these steppe influenced Beakers are as "Nordic" as the Romans or Latin Upper classes could possibly get.
At least unlike the Mycenaean-Bronze age Ancient Greek genomes we have, the Romans will actually genetically fit rather comfortably in Europe. God I sure hope so.
Last edited by Arch Hades; 10-24-2018 at 04:26 AM.
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Early Roman patricians looked probably a lot like Ede Stoiber:
In the days of the Empire, Northern grace and aristocratic aura was replaced more and more by fake macho Med/MENA posturing.
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Says the guy who's entire country was seduced by a dark haired, over gesticulating, over posturing man who carried a MENA paternal marker.Early Roman patricians looked probably a lot like Ede Stoiber:
In the days of the Empire, Northern grace and aristocratic aura was replaced more and more by fake macho Med/MENA posturing.
No Nazis or WW2 if Ede Stoiber is in charge.
Last edited by Arch Hades; 10-25-2018 at 07:40 PM.
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Hitler was a proletarian, that is correct. On the other hand, Germans love being outnumbered while Meds run away at the first sign of serious resistance.
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