Within Europe, what is a more important source of identity: social class or ethnicity?

[Tooting Carmen]

In other words, do e.g. middle-class Greeks have more in common with working-class Greeks or with middle-class Swedes (or indeed vice versa)?

[brennus dux gallorum]

both in equal measure, cause often we may have common interests with people of our class from different ethnicity.

but i think, especially today, it's a little more "ethnicity-shifted", as other more ethnically oriented "threats" have replaced the "threat" of upper classes, and most of the people are liberal/capitalists nowadays (i include myself)

[Tooting Carmen]

Imo, and this doesn't just apply to Europe but to all parts of the world, ethnicity trumps social class for sure. After all, ethnicity is permanent, whereas social class (at least most of the time) is not, or certainly ought not to be. When one sees a Chinese, Indian or Nigerian person, the first thing one notices is not if they are upper, middle or working-class but that they are, well, Chinese, Indian or Nigerian. Even among Europeans themselves this applies to some extent - put a stereotypical Swede and a stereotypical Greek next to one another and the first thing you notice is not their putative social class in either case, but that one looks Nordic and the other one looks Mediterranean.

[brennus dux gallorum]

Imo, and this doesn't just apply to Europe but to all parts of the world, ethnicity trumps social class for sure. After all, ethnicity is permanent, whereas social class (at least most of the time) is not, or certainly ought not to be. When one sees a Chinese, Indian or Nigerian person, the first thing one notices is not if they are upper, middle or working-class but that they are, well, Chinese, Indian or Nigerian. Even among Europeans themselves this applies to some extent - put a stereotypical Swede and a stereotypical Greek next to one another and the first thing you notice is not their putative social class in either case, but that one looks Nordic and the other one looks Mediterranean.

I agree, and that's what makes me think that for the most part left-wing theories are just illusion

[Tooting Carmen]

I agree, and that's what make me think that for the most part left-wing theories are just illusion

I am a centre-leftist on economic issues, but I dislike the hard left's idea that class solidarity overrides ethnic solidarity. The notion that you should feel you have more in common with someone who speaks a different language to you, has different cultural and possibly religious values, and looks so visibly different from you just because you might have a similar income level is just preposterous.

[Pigling]

For most people I think it's class, but for me:

Race > Class.

I mean upper class people are often degenerated.

[Mortimer]

before i opened this thread, i knew you made it. nothing against. just saying i knew its you. just like the "language or race" thread.

[Grab the Gauge]

It's social class no matter how hard the middleclass people on here want to believe otherwise. The elite in your countries can and will pile you 20 feet deep in a ditch, and I don't blame them. When the first robots roll off the assembly line in November, your corpses will start rolling in to the landfill.

[Maintenance]

Both, when i was a kid my group of friends i used to hang with were all mixed like me.
One kurd, one croat, one greek, one finn
We were all the same.
But later on croat got jelous of me being higher class as we grew older.
He tried to start picking on me untill i beat his ass and left the group.

[Bosniensis]

Europe is divided into two major groups of people.

Germanic conquerors and defeated Europeans.

When we talk about Europeans we talk about:

1. Celts
2. Greeks
3. Illyrians (Albanians, some Bosnians, Serbians)
4. Thracians (Bulgarians, Serbians)
5. Dacians (Romanians)
6. Anatolians (Greek and pre-Greek people)
7. Phoenecians
8. Italians (who are not immigrants or germanic)

No other people besides those are Europeans.

1. Frankish Germanic Tribes (Foreigners)
2. People of Germany (Foreigners)
3. Saxons (Foreigners)
4. Longobards (Foreigners)
5. Turks (Foreigners)
etc...

It's NOT that I hate Germanic people, it's just we simply ignore them, they have achieved a lot, but those
achievements have nothing to do with me. I would never travel to their lands to enjoy their loot, their $ etc...
for which reason I am AGAINST European Union in every aspect, and I support all Right-Wing politicians among
Bosnians, Serbs etc.. who will push us further away from EU.

The Germanic people have the same opinion of us, they ignore us, they see that we are not connected in anyway.