Non-scandinavians and asatro?

[Hilding]

I really feel that I must ask, (no disrespect or patronizing intended!!!) why do non-scandinavians practice asatru? Arent there more suitable heathenism avaliable from your own parts of the world?
I'd like to again stress the fact that I'm not trying to insult anybody, this is a question that has been in my head for a long time and now I have the chance to ask it out loud.

[Loki]

I really feel that I must ask, (no disrespect or patronizing intended!!!) why do non-scandinavians practice asatru?

You must remember that the Germanic gods were not only worshipped by Scandinavians historically, but by the ancestors of all Germanic people. Their descendants would include all Germanic-speaking regions of Europe, as well as surrounding areas like Northwestern France, etc etc.

[SuuT]

You must remember that the Germanic gods were not only worshipped by Scandinavians historically, but by the ancestors of all Germanic people. Their descendants would include all Germanic-speaking regions of Europe, as well as surrounding areas like Northwestern France, etc etc.

I think what he might be trying to ask deals with the subtle variations - the details, as it were. For example, the British Isles is something of a conglomeration of Celtic and Germanic mythos that simply wouldn't make sense in the Scandinavian conception of Asatru. And given that the extreme Germanic North was the birth place of being true to the Aesir, it becomes - for Scandinavians in general (those of the Aesir, that is) - a question mark when, say, a Bavarian (pulling an example out of my arse) lays claim to Asatru. But he'll have to clarify for himself.

[Loki]

I think what he might be trying to ask deals with the subtle variations - the details, as it were. For example, the British Isles is something of a conglomeration of Celtic and Germanic mythos that simply wouldn't make sense in the Scandinavian conception of Asatru. And given that the extreme Germanic North was the birth place of being true to the Aesir, it becomes - for Scandinavians in general (those of the Aesir, that is) - a question mark when, say, a Bavarian (pulling an example out of my arse) lays claim to Asatru. But he'll have to clarify for himself.

Even so, the ancestors of the Bavarians, the Bavarii, worshipped Odin before they were converted to Christianity. So, I see no reason why a modern Bavarian who wants to return to the religion of his forefathers, should be prevented from worshipping these ancient deities. After all Asatru is strongly connected to ancestral roots, as are any native religions.

The fact remains though, that Scandinavians were the last Europeans to be Christianized, and hence they obviously have a stronger bond to ancient religions than the rest. So I can understand Hilding's question.

[SuuT]

Even so, the ancestors of the Bavarians, the Bavarii, worshipped Odin before they were converted to Christianity. So, I see no reason why a modern Bavarian who wants to return to the religion of his forefathers, should be prevented from worshipping these ancient deities. After all Asatru is strongly connected to ancestral roots, as are any native religions.

No debate, there! But, again, it's the subtleties that - if my gut serves me - will be called into question. In other words. "What's in a name?" - the Bavarii did not know Odinas as Óðinn, but by another etymologically 'synonymous' designation. We are what we speak, that is to say:

http://cognation.stanford.edu/press/newscientist.pdf

The fact remains though, that Scandinavians were the last Europeans to be Christianized, and hence they obviously have a stronger bond to ancient religions than the rest. So I can understand Hilding's question.

Perhaps what is more is that the Christianisation was never 'completed'! - Scandinavians (generally) possess a unique status in this regard when considered part of Germanendom, more generally.


At any rate, I'll shut the hel up now and let the man speak for himself.

[Aemma]

Great question! And you got some great responses!

I think the use of this particular label has much to do with the historical developments of the reconstruction of modern day heathenry. Iceland of course recognises Asatru as a legitimate belief system now as does Denmark. It would stand to reason of course that they would call Heathenry Asatru. With respect to the use of the term in North America, much of it has to do with the work of Stephen McNallen and his group's various metamorphoses over the decades, the Asatru Alliance's and Valgard Murray's work and the work of many members of The Troth (Paxson, Gundarsson and the like). And of course the works of Edred Thorsson can't be forgotten in all of this as well. The early stages of Asatru per se in North America derived from a rediscovery of the Viking spirit, their worldview and their spiritual system. Along with the development of Asatru in North America, Theodism also developed, modelled on the elements of a sacral kingship community, pioneered by such people as Swain and Eric Wodening, who focused on a more Anglo-Saxon model while Dan O'Halloran has modelled his along the Norman model. And yet, in tandem, a more Continental Teutonic model had developed as well, drawing upon the more Teutonic nomenclature of our Gods and Goddesses. And lastly, Odinism of course is yet a less Nordic-based but moreso pan Indo-European in focus though relying heavily of course on our Teutonic/Nordic Lore. Its development primarily started in Australia and England and has spread from there. I don't know anything about the Odian movement mind you so I cannot speak to that.

All of this to say that the term Asatru doesn't always reflect a purely Nordic approach to our indigenous religion, especially in the non-Scandinavian parts of our world. Some use the term Asatru interchangeably with Heathenry, some don't. I fall in the latter category.

But, most of us pretty much use the same Lore and folklore, depending on cultural focus of course. I think non-Scandinavians Asatruar tend to use a broader base of myths as Lore while Icelandic Asatruar would more than likely more heavily rely on the Eddas and Sagas, perhaps exclusively. (On this point I'm not sure though).

I'm not sure that I answered your question really. But there you have my two-cents worth for now.

Cheers Hilding!...Aemma

[Loki]

Perhaps what is more is that the Christianisation was never 'completed'! - Scandinavians (generally) possess a unique status in this regard when considered part of Germanendom, more generally.

True, and the Icelanders more than anyone else.

[Hilding]

You must remember that the Germanic gods were not only worshipped by Scandinavians historically, but by the ancestors of all Germanic people. Their descendants would include all Germanic-speaking regions of Europe, as well as surrounding areas like Northwestern France, etc etc.

SuuT put it in a such a nice manner that I think I'll just quote him for my reply

I think what he might be trying to ask deals with the subtle variations - the details, as it were. For example, the British Isles is something of a conglomeration of Celtic and Germanic mythos that simply wouldn't make sense in the Scandinavian conception of Asatru. And given that the extreme Germanic North was the birth place of being true to the Aesir, it becomes - for Scandinavians in general (those of the Aesir, that is) - a question mark when, say, a Bavarian (pulling an example out of my arse) lays claim to Asatru. But he'll have to clarify for himself.

Even so, the ancestors of the Bavarians, the Bavarii, worshipped Odin before they were converted to Christianity. So, I see no reason why a modern Bavarian who wants to return to the religion of his forefathers, should be prevented from worshipping these ancient deities. After all Asatru is strongly connected to ancestral roots, as are any native religions.

The fact remains though, that Scandinavians were the last Europeans to be Christianized, and hence they obviously have a stronger bond to ancient religions than the rest. So I can understand Hilding's question.

Yes they did, still with different names (Wotan and Donar etc). I do understand that scandinavian asatro is probably the closest you can get to germanic mythology since christianity (as you said) came to us last and we managed to preserve more than the rest of Europe.

[Hilding]

Aemma:

First of all, thank you for you enlightening reply

As a snowed in scandinavian I have shown no interest at all in "outlanders" who practice our traditions and use our names and actually found it quite weird, kind or "new age-ish". But of course you germanians on the other side of the ocean should practice the lore that lies in our, partially, common blood. And development and adaptation is obviously needed.

All of this to say that the term Asatru doesn't always reflect a purely Nordic approach to our indigenous religion

Well a cake can be many kinds of cake I guess though I find it quite misleading to use a term for something that is not what it is supposed to be.

[SuuT]

Hilding,

This is the point at which you explain how hårdknackad we Scandinavians are!