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Thread: Raine said (Series)

  1. #131
    Veteran Member Kelmendasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Without Greek mythology and reference to Illyrius.

    Does the name Illyrians make any sense?
    Did Illyrians realy exist then?
    Yes and no, apparently there was an Illyrian tribe going by the name of Ilir in Albania but I guess the myth made the name "Illyrian" more widespread. Still though it's wrong of Raine to say that the first Illyrians derive from a Greek
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    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Yes and no, apparently there was an Illyrian tribe going by the name of Ilir in Albania but I guess the myth made the name "Illyrian" more widespread.
    Ok, from where do you know that there was this tribe?
    Which are the sources"other than ancient Greek".
    How long did this tribe exist?
    For example were this people still there with the same name during Byzantine times?
    During Ottoman times?

  3. #133
    Veteran Member Kelmendasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Ok, from where do you know that there was this tribe?
    Which are the sources"other than ancient Greek".
    How long did this tribe exist?
    For example were this people still there with the same name during Byzantine times?
    During Ottoman times?
    Here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Ok and it says
    The name "Illyrians", as applied by the ancient Greeks to their northern neighbors, may have referred to a broad, ill-defined group of peoples, and it is today unclear to what extent they were linguistically and culturally homogeneous. In fact, an Illyric origin was and still is attributed also to a few ancient peoples in Italy, in particular the Iapyges, Dauni and Messapi, as it is thought that, most likely, they had followed Adriatic shorelines to the peninsula, coming from the geographic "Illyria". The Illyrian tribes never collectively regarded themselves as 'Illyrians', and it is unlikely that they used any collective nomenclature for themselves.[4] In fact, the name Illyrians seems to be the name applied to a specific Illyrian tribe, which was the first to come in contact with the ancient Greeks during the Bronze Age,[5] causing the name Illyrians to be applied pars pro toto to all people of similar language and customs.[6]
    Even this source is from ancient Greeks
    The first account of Illyrian peoples comes from the Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax, an ancient Greek text of the middle of the 4th century BC that describes coastal passages in the Mediterranean.[3]
    As matter of fact there is no exact notion of Illyrians as a homogenous ancient ethnic group.
    Its rather applied to a group of different tribes inhabiting the Balkans North of Greece
    "but not only" of whom it is not exactly known how they relate to each other and how
    diverse they were.

    On the one hand people living as far North as Croatia,Northern Albania and Serbia were called
    Illyrians on the other hand there are native Italic tribes of Southern Italy listed as Illyrians.
    Even some native tribes of Eastern Sicily are named as Illyrians.
    Its in fact realy dodgy to me what they realy were...

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