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Thread: Is Greece a Western European country?

  1. #341
    Veteran Member Laberia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvwvw View Post
    The Karamanlides were a fraction of the Asia Minor Greeks that arrived to Greece. And they lived in cities unlike Turks who were peasants and lived in villages. Nearly 90% of Asia Minor Greeks lived in cities. They were ethnically cleansed to Greece and over a million was genocided, having lost everything, they may have come dirt poor but they were quite educated. Most of them settled in Macedonia and Athens.

    Greece had at least two Karamanlides as Premier ministers


    He put us into the EU


    PM from 2004-2008

    Karamanlides inscription. MASHALLAH.

    There is a spirit of independence and a love of the country, in the whole people, that, in a grater measure, does away the vast distinction, observable in other parts of Turkey, between the followers of of two religions. For when the natives of other provinces, upon being asked who they are, will say, we are Turks or, we are Christians. A man of this country answers, I am an Albanian. -John Cameron Hobhouse

  2. #342
    Veteran Member Laberia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen B View Post
    Chams were Muslim, right?
    Since Chams sided with the Axis then:

    a) why didn't Albanian Orthodox, didn't side with them?
    b) if Albanian Orthodox didn't side with then, which side the took?

    =============

    c)Did or did not the ''Albanian Christians'' fought for Greece's independence?
    d)If they had a national identity rather than a religious one, why didn't they fought for Albanian independence?

    =============

    e) If there was a national identity, when Cham Albanians fought against Greeks in the first chance they got, why didn't the Orthodox Albanians? As if Greece would side with Turkey and and Cyprus, in any case.




    Not wanting to hurt your feelings, but the world/etymology/characterisation of what is ''Europe'' is first and foremost Greek. You can tell all shits you like about what Greeks are or aren't , but European isn't one of them. If ANYONE can claim the term European, this is Greeks.
    No idiot, it's not true. How many times we have to explain to you? Ksilokefale.
    The collaboration with Axis was not an Albanian phenomenon let alone Cham phenomenon. Do you know the origin of the term Quisling? I doubt.
    There were Chams who collaborated with Axis and others who fought in the ranks of Albanian partisans or with Greek resistance:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chameria_Battalion
    Stop spreading disinformation you ignorant.

    There is a spirit of independence and a love of the country, in the whole people, that, in a grater measure, does away the vast distinction, observable in other parts of Turkey, between the followers of of two religions. For when the natives of other provinces, upon being asked who they are, will say, we are Turks or, we are Christians. A man of this country answers, I am an Albanian. -John Cameron Hobhouse

  3. #343
    Veteran Member katniss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavrentis View Post
    All I see is a lot of people dancing under Turkish rythms and Serbian flags in the video. Your friend Vozd started posting on the topic first btw.
    Folk dance societies in former Yugoslavia performed traditional dances from all over the country. Vranjaska svita has been often in the repertoire of these folk dance societies. I could not care less for your delusional idiotisms. I react only when you spread lies about Serbs and Serbian culture. You always poke your nose into threads related to the Serbs and former Yugoslavia always demonstrating pathological hate towards Serbs, but you wrote here that your neighbors are obsessed with Greeks.

  4. #344
    Veteran Member Lavrentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katniss View Post
    Folk dance societies in former Yugoslavia performed traditional dances from all over the country. Vranjaska svita has been often in the repertoire of these folk dance societies. I could not care less for your delusional idiotisms. I react only when you spread lies about Serbs and Serbian culture. There is no single thread about Serbs in which you were not poking your nose always demonstrating pathological hate towards Serbs, but you wrote here that your neighbors are obsessed with Greeks.
    I don't hate anyone, you're just mad that I don't support Serbian chauvinism. I'm telling you once more, I was interested in the Yugoslav Wars and after investigating the topic, I arrived to the conclusion that Serbia caused those wars.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavrentis View Post
    I told you that Oriental stuff in Greece came along Anatolian people who were exchanged to Greece in 1923.

    My island was 252 years under the Turks but our music doesn't sound Turkish at all. I can give you more examples.
    Lol Oriental stuff like dolmades and giouvarlakia all of which can be traced to Byzantine Greece and Oriental Asian Minor music like Rembetika which is also Greek. Or maybe did you have in mind "Turkish" coffee which can also be found throughout the Balkans? As if the Byzantines did not trade with the Yemenis and Ethiopians before the arrival of Turks! They had been waiting the nonadic Turks, who even today are avid tea drinkers and don't drink much coffee, to introduce Turkish coffee to Greeks!

  6. #346
    Senior Member Vod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavrentis View Post
    Greek identity used to be based on religion, but that happens when you are surrounded by people you have are not similar with, ie Turks, Albanians and Slavs. Why do Turks and Albanians want to speak on our behalf and where our country belongs? Greece is a southern European country which belongs to the West. Albanians are more similar to Serbs and Romanians than Greeks are btw.
    Depends which Serbs, which Greeks and which Albanians.
    Dinaric Albanians are more similar to dinaric Serbs than to any Greeks, but other Albanians are more similar to Greeks than to Serbs.

  7. #347
    Senior Member Keraunos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoxhaism View Post
    Maybe not modern day, but if this was 100 years ago he could have moved to Greece and assimilated no bother.
    I speak in a historical sense, albanian identity was not based on religion but ethnicity unlike the rest of europe.
    Albania literally had a civil war because one part of the population wanted to remain apart of the Ottoman empire so how can religion not play a role in your identity? It's basically the only former-Ottoman nation to hold pro-Ottoman sentiments even to this day, and you're saying this had/has nothing to do with religion?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasan...oman_Albanians

    Haxhi Qamili and his supporters were reported to have persecuted, bound, tortured and killed many teachers of the Albanian language. Because he supported the usage of the Arabic alphabet (as opposed to the Latin one), he viewed them as enemies of Turkey.
    The pro-Ottoman peasants believed that the new regime of the Principality of Albania was a tool of the six Christian Great Powers and the landowners that owned half of the arable land. Revolt was led by Muslim leaders Haxhi Qamili, Arif Hiqmeti, Musa Qazimi and Mustafa Ndroqi. This group of discontented Muslim clerics gathered around Essad Pasha Toptani who proclaimed himself the savior of Albania and Islam.
    Really?!
    The whole earth is the tomb of heroes: their epitaph shines out not just for local attention, but their unwritten memory lives on in the esteem of each man more than on any monument.
    Thucydides

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post

    Karamanlides inscription. MASHALLAH.
    Karamanlides wrote with the Greek alphabet and had a Greek conscience despite the fact they were like the Kurds of today, not allowed to speak Greek in public. Besides the Karamanlides who lived isolated, all other Asia Minor Greeks preserved perfectly well their language. Even today they speak diverse archaic Greek dialects, who will soon go extinct because their descendants prefer to speak standard Greek.

  9. #349
    Veteran Member Bri's Avatar
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    In Italy, what’s south of Rome was controlled by non-European, non-Western Arabs (Sicily) and Byzantines (Napoli region area). Until Norman masters took over by slaying Greeks and Arabs.

    It’s why south Italy, just like Spain and Portugal which were controlled by Moors, missed the genesis of European/Western civilization. But later they have been Europeanized.

    So Greek OWD’ers should forget about it.
    You are kin with Serbs, Romanians, Bulgarians.
    You are same Eastern, non-Euro Orthodox civilization.

  10. #350
    Senior Member Vod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri View Post
    No it doesn’t.
    Iberians and Italians, who are south Europe, are culturally closer to French than to Greece.

    You Cretans have the common Arab-Emirate history as Sicily and Iberia but that’s irrelevant in all these cultures (like Portuguese cuscus Moor dish).

    Greece is a non-European, Byzantine, Eastern, Orthodox country; culturally closer to Serbia than to Italy.

    Deal with it.
    Byzantine culture in European countries is full European.
    You use Italy in this comparasion, but Italy also are hard influenced by Byzantine culture.



    I think Greece is more similar to Italy than to Serbia, because Serbia have not mediteranean culture, and Greece have not central European culture. Also Greece and Italy both have not dinaric culture like Serbia have.

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