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Thread: Rus Kaghanate: Turkic structural origins of the Russian state

  1. #101
    Iskusan član Vlatko Vukovic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    You Bosniaks had a chance to become European (in the civilizational and cultural sense) but it was missed in the process of Bogomil heresy and then Islamization.
    Otherwise you could be like Hungary which became European during 10th century.
    Bosnia was medieval Western chatolic kingdom. King Tvrtko Kotromanic himself was Chatolic.

    By the way. This Argentino don't consider Poles as Europeans as well. That means he is pan-Germanist and pro-Latin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Brujo View Post
    Democracy is only a hallmark of Europe in the last 200 years. And mostly due to Anglo-Saxon influence. European traditional politics is based around the notion of Imperium or Monarchy, inherited from Roman and Holy Roman empires.
    I consider ''European'' from a civilizational point of view the cultures developed from a Latin-Germanic base. That includes all of Italy (but less Southern Italy than Northern Italy), Iberia, France, Britain, Germany, Austria etc.
    Ahh ya, entonces, lo "europeo" para ti es Europa Occidental. Estuve en diferentes países de Europa, y te diria que en Rusia hay más blancos que alli. Físicamente, somos europeos blancos, con una mezcla de pequeńas nacionalidades turcas. Pero la gente es blanca en su mayoria, al menos donde vivo yo. żHas visto a muchos rusos en realidad para hablar de nosotros? Definitivamente somos más blancos que los argentinos, y más racialmente puros, de hecho. Iván el Terrible se casó con la princesa griega Sophia Palaeologus, y asi confirmó la continuidad de la dinastía gobernante rusa del Imperio Romano. "Moscú es la Tercera Roma. Y no habrá una cuarta". Esta famosa declaración, escrita en 1511 por el monje Filoteo al zar Basilio III, habla de dos Romas anteriores: la imperial e italiana, la primera Roma, y la oriental e imperial Constantinopla, la segunda. Moscú sería la heredera de esta tradición de imperio "y no habrá una cuarta Roma". Aparte, en Rusia, casi siempre ha habido un orden monárquico. Y no somos (al menos parcialmente segun tus propias reglas) europeos? Ay, me ganaste, genio!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic View Post
    Bosnia was medieval Western chatolic kingdom. King Tvrtko Kotromanic himself was Chatolic.

    By the way. This Argentino don't consider Poles as Europeans as well. That means he is pan-Germanist and pro-Latin.
    Yeah I know but it was elite dominance which met resistance from the common folk who were under heretic dominance.

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    Iskusan član Vlatko Vukovic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    Yeah I know but it was elite dominance which met resistance from the common folk who were under heretic dominance.
    Official status of the Bosnia was Western Kingdom. That is about what are you speaking all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller View Post
    Ahh ya, entonces, lo "europeo" para ti es Europa Occidental. Estuve en diferentes países de Europa, y te diria que en Rusia hay más blancos que alli. Físicamente, somos europeos blancos, con una mezcla de pequeńas nacionalidades turcas. Pero la gente es blanca en su mayoria, al menos donde vivo yo. żHas visto a muchos rusos en realidad para hablar de nosotros? Definitivamente somos más blancos que los argentinos, y más racialmente puros, de hecho. Iván el Terrible se casó con la princesa griega Sophia Palaeologus, y asi confirmó la continuidad de la dinastía gobernante rusa del Imperio Romano. "Moscú es la Tercera Roma. Y no habrá una cuarta". Esta famosa declaración, escrita en 1511 por el monje Filoteo al zar Basilio III, habla de dos Romas anteriores: la imperial e italiana, la primera Roma, y la oriental e imperial Constantinopla, la segunda. Moscú sería la heredera de esta tradición de imperio "y no habrá una cuarta Roma". Aparte, en Rusia, casi siempre ha habido un orden monárquico. Y no somos (al menos parcialmente segun tus propias reglas) europeos? Ay, me ganaste, genio!
    Pero yo no he dito que ser ''blanco'' es lo que torna alguien un occidental. Mi argumento es de naturaleza cultural. La Europa Occidental es muy diferente de la Rusia para que sean consideradas parte de la misma civilizacción.

    Si, los Rusos etnicos son mas blancos que los Argentinos porque en Argentina hay muchos mestizos, pero muchos blancos también. Y culturalmente Argentina es leja de Europa Occidental, Rusia es muy diferente. Te digo mii caso personal: En Francia y en Argentina siento que estoy en casa, cuando visité a los paises de Europa Oriental no sentí mucha similitud.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Brujo View Post
    Pero yo no he dito que ser ''blanco'' es lo que torna alguien un occidental. Mi argumento es de naturaleza cultural. La Europa Occidental es muy diferente de la Rusia para que sean consideradas parte de la misma civilizacción. Si, los Rusos etnicos son mas blancos que los Argentinos porque en Argentina hay muchos mestizos, pero muchos blancos también. Y culturalmente Argentina es leja de Europa Occidental, Rusia es muy diferente. Te digo mii caso personal: En Francia y en Argentina siento que estoy en casa, cuando visité a los paises de Europa Oriental no sentí mucha similitud.
    Culturalmente, somos una civilización europea (alternativa al Occidente). Los países de Europa occidental y oriental se encontraban en diferentes condiciones históricas y climáticas, asi que nos hemos formado a las entidades distintas. Pero diciendo la verdad, cuando estaba en Estambul, no sentía que Turquía fuera un país cercano a mí, me sentía mucho más cómodo en Buenos Aires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic View Post
    Bosnia was medieval Western chatolic kingdom. King Tvrtko Kotromanic himself was Chatolic.

    By the way. This Argentino don't consider Poles as Europeans as well. That means he is pan-Germanist and pro-Latin.
    It's spelled Catholic not "Chatolic" btw.

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    Veteran Member Marmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentkiller View Post
    But was it Turkish or part of Osman Empire? Nope. Russia is a multiethnic country, but a mono-national subject. Among our Tsars there were no Turks, and our culture forms part of the common Christian civilization and based on the ideals of the Enlightenment era. Part of Russia is situated in Asia, but the Orthodox Christian subject (Russian government) was developing this territory. So we are Europeans, but not Westerners. However, we are much closer to Western Europe than Turkey or some other country in South-West Asia.
    This is no comparision or competition, and the referred Turks here (Khazars and Golden Horde) aren't Turkish but Central Asian Turkics. The whole point of Böri here is the Turkic/Asiatic/Non-European aspect of Russia which no one can deny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Brujo View Post
    Democracy is only a hallmark of Europe in the last 200 years. And mostly due to Anglo-Saxon influence. European traditional politics is based around the notion of Imperium or Monarchy, inherited from Roman and Holy Roman empires.

    I consider ''European'' from a civilizational point of view the cultures developed from a Latin-Germanic base. That includes all of Italy (but less Southern Italy than Northern Italy), Iberia, France, Britain, Germany, Austria etc.
    Nobody cares what you think honestly. You are not Russian, not Eastern European, not Slav, not Eurasian, so nobody cares your opinion. You aren't European you are South American. I'm more European than you since I literally born and lived my entire life on European soil.

    You are not an authority

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmara View Post
    This is no comparision or competition, and the referred Turks here (Khazars and Golden Horde) aren't Turkish but Central Asian Turkics. The whole point of Böri here is the Turkic/Asiatic/Non-European aspect of Russia which no one can deny.
    Our ruling elite was a part of the Golden Horde for 2 centuries, of course we took something from them.

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