"Troy Towns" - Classical Labyrinths of the North

[ApollonianGerm]

Hi, I am a new member on this forum, this is my first post. I did a search and couldn't find anything on this subject, so I decided to post.

My question is-- who built the Trojaborgs which are scattered throughout the north coast of Europe? Why did they build them? And when were they built?

trojaborg.jpg

Any explanation for the above questions, I think, must be able to explain why the pattern corresponds exactly with the Classical Labyrinths found on Minoan coins and other Greek artifacts.

Interestingly, it also corresponds with an Etruscan pitcher, the pitcher of Tragliatella, which has been dated to the 6th or 7th century BC... and this vase is where it gets interesting. Along with the "Troy Town" inscribed upon it, there is a scene showing a woman presenting a man with some kind of orb, which has been interpreted as the "Judgement of Paris" scene. The rest of the pitcher shows a scene with seven armed men "dancing", and two men on horseback riding out of the Troy town.

etruscanpitcherlabyrinth.jpg

We also know from Roman sources that among the aristocrats there was a circle-dance done in labyrinths on horseback. Virgil and Homer also mention a connection between a dance and the Labyrinth, "Virgil adds another motif derived from Homer and elaborated-- a labyrinthine dance in which the dancers reenact the movement toward and away from the center. This is the meaning of Homer's allusion to Ariadne's dancing floor and the dance depicted at the center of Achilles' shield in Illiad 18, a dance that Virgil appears to imitate and elaborate in the cavalry maneuvers of the "Lusus Troiae" -- performed by Iulus and other youthful Trojans in Aeneid 5" (from a book called Heroic Mockery by George de Forest Lord) this labyrinth-dance ritual was re-instated by Julius Caesar himself at Rome and was noted by many Roman historians, occurring in labyrinths "out in the fields" just as can be found in the North of Europe.

Interestingly enough, some memory of this dance has still been preserved in the north, here are some good ol' Danes, performing the ancient Lusus Troiae on foot...



Final point: I think a northern origin is the best explanation for this custom, for a number of reasons. First, is the sheer number of existing Trojaborgs in the European north, compared to the south. This handy site, the Labyrinth locator, https://labyrinthlocator.com/... we can see the greatest concentration exists around the Baltic Sea, and interestingly many exist on an island in the White Sea. A few exist in Britain as well, and others farther inland in Germany... and as Ernst Krause said in his paper on this subject, "does it not sound monstrous that one should want to derive an appellation which occurs a hundred times in the North, from Italy where it could with great difficulty be documented but once? Will a land in which one lion is met escaped from a circus be regarded as the home of the lion, or not rather that in which great numbers of the animal occur?"

Another reason is that I think the symbolism of the Labyrinth & the corresponding circle dances is, in the most abstract way possible, a representation of the Sun's course in the northern latitudes. It goes in ever smaller arcs, until reaching the "underworld", and finally returning outwards in ever larger arcs across the sky, only to repeat the course again and again forever.

[Kouros]

I'm not sure. The Labyrinth is a very, very old symbol, it's oldest representation is around 6000 years old. It's also found all over the world and not just Europe, that would at least rule out an indo-European origin. Maybe Early European Farmers? But then how did it make it's way to places like Peru and Egypt...

[ApollonianGerm]

Interesting, your mention of Peru threw me for a loop, and I went out researching labyrinths in the New World, came to some very interesting findings.

However, before I get to that, I want to stress the fact that these labyrinths are called "Troy" by the ancient cultures who built them, as well as in our modern vocabulary. This, to me, is a mystery that demands a better explanation than what is currently available.

But regarding Peru... I was unable to find a good example of a clearly classical Labyrinth from Peru. I found some articles speculating on how the lines of Nazca could possibly be labyrinthine but they really don't look right to me.

However, what I did find in researching was I'itoi, "the Man in the Maze", a god of the Tohono O'odham. Iitoi was a Creator God, associated with the Sun, and represented by a labyrinth, with only two distinct differences from European labyrinths-- the design is radial, and the entrance is at the top, where traditional labyrinths have the entrance at the bottom. What does this mean?

Well, it is known that the Amerindians migrated into NA via the Bering Strait land bridge. According to their oral traditions, "O'odham oral history describes I'itoi bringing Hohokam people to this earth from the underworld..."

The world was made by Earth-maker out of the dirt and sweat which he scraped from his skin... the flat earth met the sky with a crash like that of falling rocks, and from the two was born Iitoi, the protector of Papagos. He had light hair and a beard. [] Iitoi and Earth-maker shaped and peopled the new world, and they were followed everywhere by Coyote..." (from the wikipedia page on I'itoi)

Perhaps, the labyrinth's entrance is on top for Iitoi because these people vaguely recall "leaving the underworld" near the polar regions (where the sun disappears for half the year)?

Also interesting is the fact that the O'odham people descend from the Hohokam and the Hohokam were the only folk in the American Southwest who used extensive irrigation networks to raise crops, even as early as 2000BCE.

Who knows, I am doing a lot of speculation here, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Especially on the Troy connection.

[Kouros]

However, before I get to that, I want to stress the fact that these labyrinths are called "Troy" by the ancient cultures who built them, as well as in our modern vocabulary. This, to me, is a mystery that demands a better explanation than what is currently available.

The name 'Troy Town' was given to the turf mazes in 1922 and it doesn't have an actual connection to Troy outside of it's name. They named the mazes 'Troy Town' because the walls of Troy were described as being maze-like or labyrinth-like. I don't think the cultures that built them actually named them Troy, unless you have a source I can look at.

The world was made by Earth-maker out of the dirt and sweat which he scraped from his skin... the flat earth met the sky with a crash like that of falling rocks, and from the two was born Iitoi, the protector of Papagos. He had light hair and a beard. [] Iitoi and Earth-maker shaped and peopled the new world, and they were followed everywhere by Coyote..." (from the wikipedia page on I'itoi)

This could make sense since native Americans have ANE admixture according to latest research.

Perhaps, the labyrinth's entrance is on top for Iitoi because these people vaguely recall "leaving the underworld" near the polar regions (where the sun disappears for half the year)?

This would make sense as well

[ApollonianGerm]

1922? These labyrinths have been called “Troy” since the 6th or 7th Century BC, as seen written in old Etruscan inside a labyrinth depicted on the Pitcher of Tragliatella that I mentioned in the OP. Here’s the paper that started me off on all of this—http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/view...96&context=ocj

Also, as i mentioned, the Lucus Troiae was a labyrinthine dance recorded by Roman historians, so Troy has been associated with labyrinths since antiquity.
Where did you find that they were dubbed Troy only as recently as 1922?

[Kouros]

1922? These labyrinths have been called “Troy” since the 6th or 7th Century BC, as seen written in old Etruscan inside a labyrinth depicted on the Pitcher of Tragliatella that I mentioned in the OP. Here’s the paper that started me off on all of this—http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/view...96&context=ocj

Also, as i mentioned, the Lucus Troiae was a labyrinthine dance recorded by Roman historians, so Troy has been associated with labyrinths since antiquity.
Where did you find that they were dubbed Troy only as recently as 1922?

In your OP you are referring to the turf mazes found in Northern Europe and you claim in your 2nd post that they were referred to as 'Troy Towns' by the 'cultures that built them'. How can you know that? The Labyrinths were referred to as 'Troy Towns' by the Etruscans, because they are thought to have migrated from Asia Minor, where Troy is allegedly located. You are basically implying that the structures which were found in Northern Europe were built by Etruscans, who we know resided in central Italy until their Roman assimilation.

The Pitcher of Tragliatella is probably depicting a scene from the Trojan war. Probably the exact same as Theseus and the Minotaur except at the center of the Labyrinth (or Troy) is Helen of Troy and not a Minotaur. And the two having sex could just be Paris and Helen.



There are some theories that the Iliad takes place in the Baltic sea and not Greece & Asia Minor, if that's what you're getting at.

[ApollonianGerm]

"In your OP you are referring to the turf mazes found in Northern Europe and you claim in your 2nd post that they were referred to as 'Troy Towns' by the 'cultures that built them'. How can you know that?"

I think it would be extremely unlikely that a design which was referred to by ancient Etruscans as "Troy" would also be called "Troy" by modern people living in northern Europe, but then not be called that by the people who originally built them. That would certainly be a strange coincidence, and it is much more reasonable to assume the original builders of these structures called them Troy. Especially because they are associated with circular dancing in both instances.

I am not suggesting that Troy was in the Baltic, although I have heard that idea. What I am suggesting is that perhaps the Greeks, Etruscans, etc. had direct dealings with people living as far north as Bolshoi Zayatsky Islands in the White Sea... either that, or perhaps they both descend from a common ancestor that already used the labyrinth design? Perhaps the Ancient North Eurasians were the first to conceive of this pattern, since we also see it in select native american populations?

Who knows? But I think there's a bigger mystery here.