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Thread: Slavic tribes of Slovakia

  1. #21
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    Słowaks are just Słowaks. It is their tribal name. Sometimes is differentiated
    yet tribe Nitreans. That's all. If there were some tribes, the their names were
    not preserved. In Poland it is suspected that existed some 50 tribes, but we
    know only 1/4 of them. Rest are everntualy artificial names, like this name
    "Vag Slavs" or maybe also Nitreans.

    But later there are a lot of regions which can be discribed.
    Like Orawa, Spisz, Liptów, Nitrean Duchy aso...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Yeah, I'm don't believe that Hungarians lived there before Slavs. I was just asking about the tribe names.



    You're right. I mentioned Moravians in my original post, but forgot that they also had a tribe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravians_(tribe)

    You say that Moravians lived in western Slovakia. What about in eastern Slovakia? Who lived there?



    As far as I know, the term Slovensky just referred to Slavs in general. Even Serbs call themselves "Sloven". Using that term to refer to specifically Slovaks seems to be a more recent thing.
    No Slovaks being referred to as Slovaci or Slovene is not a recent thing. Czechs, moravians, and poles already had different terms for their nationalities at the time of great Moravia. Slovaks kept the orignal name Slovene and it became their official name then. Just because it was a term that could be used to refer to all slavs does not mean it didnt have a second and more specific meaning when reffering to Slovaks, which it did as Czechs and Poles used the term slovene many times to refer to slavs in present day slovakia and only to them.

    West Slovakia and Modern day czech Moravia were the core of great Moravia and they were called Moravians many times in history. Eastern slovaks are not mentioned unfortunately at this time, but later on we see that all northern slavs of hungary were reffered to as Slovene including them
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Yeah, I don't believe that Hungarians lived there before Slavs.
    Idiot, nobody said Hungarians were there before Slavs, but those slavs were heterogenous mass without clearly defined idenitity. Learn to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stears View Post
    Idiot, nobody said Hungarians were there before Slavs, but those slavs were heterogenous mass without clearly defined idenitity. Learn to read.
    I don't disagree with you on that. The other user was the one that brought up who was there earlier. I thought he was talking about Slavs in general.

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    ...
    Last edited by Sekkmer; 12-21-2017 at 06:40 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stears View Post
    Idiot, nobody said Hungarians were there before Slavs, but those slavs were heterogenous mass without clearly defined idenitity. Learn to read.
    Do you know around what year the Slovak identity came into existence by the way?

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    Veteran Member blogen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Slovaks were also historically called Tóth by Hungarians but that name just referred to generic Slavs (and later Slovaks) rather than a specific tribe. The term Tóth is of Germanic origin meaning "nation/people" (cognate to Deutsch) and came to Hungarian via the Goths (who lived in Slovakia).
    The tót (Tóth is a personal name) ethnonym came from the teut name of the Germans, who were the rulers of the Slavs in the western part of the Carpathian basin. The tót was the name of the Slavonian, Pannonian, and Moravian Slavs between the Magyars. We use this name exclusively to the Slovaks since the 19th century only.

    I've also heard that they might have been descended from the "Slavic tribe" known as Moravians, but I doubt there was ever such thing as a Slavic tribe called "Moravians". The only reference to anything related to Moravians is in Byzantine sources regarding Great Morava (Megale Moravia) and it is just a name given by the Byzantines based on their location being around the Morava River rather than it being a tribal name.
    We have placename from the present Western-Slovakia with the moraβt --> marót ethnonym, what territory was presumably the maximum extent of the Moravian rule: Hontmarót, Aranyosmarót, Kismarót (destroyed village near Egeg), Pilismarót, Marót (destroyed village near Nyergesújfalu)

    These settlements are along a line, presumably the former Moravian-Bulgarian border from the late 9th century, because the Bulgarian placenames and lingual-effect is beginning on the eastern side of this line ("pest" means cave placenames, Bulgarian etnonyms as placenames, etc.). So the local Slavs were presumably not Moravians, but Slavs under Moravian rule only, since the Moravian ethnonym as placename concentrated only along the former border, where was a significance of this name.

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    Veteran Member blogen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by АКСИС View Post
    In western slovakia people belong to the tribe Moravians clearly attested to by mideval sources of the time.
    The territory yes, but not the local Slavs, who where presumably not Moravians! The ethnic Moravians lived in the Morava valley, and not the territory of the present Western-Slovakia. They conquered this territory to the present Central-Slovakia, where they met with the Bulgarian conquerors, but this was a political situation only (the Slavs on the Bulgarian side were also not Bulgarians, only Slavs under Bulgarian rule and cultural influence).

    The Bulgarian situation in the late 9th century:

    Early Hungarian placename with Bulgarian etnonym
    Early Hungarian placename with Bulgarian origin placename
    Early Hungarian placename with Bulgarian lingual influence (effect from the Bulgarian Slavic dialect) (white)

    The Moravian situation in the late 9th century:

    Early Hungarian placename with the Moravian etnonym

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    Iskusan član Vlatko Vukovic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blogen View Post
    Early Hungarian placename with the Moravian etnonym[/COLOR]
    That allude on what according to you?

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    Veteran Member blogen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic View Post
    That allude on what according to you?
    Rácz Anita: Adatok a népnévvel alakult régi magyar településnevek történetéhez (Data to the old Hungarian toponyms with ethnonyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2011
    Rácz Anita: Etnonímák a régi magyar településnevekben (Ethnonyms in the old Hungarian toponyms) - Debrecen University Press, 2016

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