Why is Belgium so divided?

[Dandelion]

Yesterday a Flemish YouTuber uploaded a video trying to explain in short what lies at the roots of the division of Belgium and the difficulties of running the country. He's fairly knowledgeable but far from neutral, though I agree with most of his viewpoints of course.



I am only slightly annoyed that he emphasises on Flemish so much, even when speaking about our language. He should know better.

Otherwise he identifies as Dutch-speaking and has pro-Dutch sentiments he admits he can barely hide, but just like myself he's no hardcore nationalist willing to stick out his neck for this cause because it's not worth it due to complications of splitting up Belgium altogether. Belgians, Dutch and French-speaking should also read the comments. Very interesting discussions which give a good idea about how many opinions exist on this issue (currently mainly Dutch-speakers are taking part, discussing in English lol).

[Tchek]

I'm going to watch this, I've only watched the first minute and I'm already triggered lol the linguistic divide has nothing to do with the french/HRE division (which is not correctly drawn in the vid, as the big majority of the french-speaking area was HRE and not France...) I'm going to watch the rest when I've time

[JohnSmith]

Yesterday a Flemish YouTuber uploaded a video trying to explain in short what lies at the roots of the division of Belgium and the difficulties of running the country. He's fairly knowledgeable but far from neutral, though I agree with most of his viewpoints of course.



I am only slightly annoyed that he emphasises on Flemish so much, even when speaking about our language. He should know better.

Otherwise he identifies as Dutch-speaking and has pro-Dutch sentiments he admits he can barely hide, but just like myself he's no hardcore nationalist willing to stick out his neck for this cause because it's not worth it due to complications of splitting up Belgium altogether. Belgians, Dutch and French-speaking should also read the comments. Very interesting discussions which give a good idea about how many opinions exists on this issue (currently mainly Dutch-speakers are taking part, discussing in English lol).

Was Belgium even country before the Napoleonic wars? I believe Britain protected their neutrality after Napoleon era and when the Germans invaded in 1914 Britain only then got involved in WWI.

[Dandelion]

Was Belgium even country before the Napoleonic wars? I believe Britain protected their neutrality after Napoleon era and when the Germans invaded in 1914 Britain only then got involved in WWI.

Well, yes and no. Before that we were part of the Austrian Netherlands (Habsburg Netherlands) and in the case of Liège and Limburg (roughly) part of the Prince-Bishopric of Liège. Both part of the HRE anyway.

[Peterski]

Belgium will be united again when Muslims become the majority in both Flanders and Wallonia.

[Mingle]

Even though many of us like to poke fun at Western Europeans for being self-hating and all that, it's really admirable that stuff like ethnic-based nationalism/separatism is actually a significant factor there to some degree.

There are many countries where some regions are richer than the others, but for some reason Belgium stands out.

My theory as to why Belgium stands out (didn't watch the video btw):

1. There are only two main regions in Belgium with somewhat similar populations. These two regions have a somewhat uniform culture on their own, but there is enough distinctiveness to put them at odds with each other. Other countries don't have only two main cultural lands, but a couple (Germany has Bavaria, Thuringia, BD, etc; Spain has Catalonia, Andalusia, Galicia, etc). I am aware there is a German-speaking community but they are too small to mention.

2. The French language. Frenchies tend to be very passionate about their language. The majority of the population is Dutch, yet French is treated as equal with it or even better than it e.g. Flemings are more likely to learn French than vice versa and the capital Brussels is mainly French-speaking. This divides the country a lot. I have a feeling that if the French were the majority or Wallonia was German instead, then this wouldn't be that much of an issue.

3. Belgium being a new nation. It was only founded in 1830 as an independent nation. Prior to that, it had more shared history with the Netherlands than with Wallonia so a strong Belgian identity didn't take much time to develop. Also (with the exception of the French), in recent times, very few countries suppressed minority groups. In Belgium, the Walloons were not oppressed. There was some oppression of Flemish during the French occupation (keeping in mind this was before Belgium was founded), but it wasn't that long. Both Flemish nationalism and Walloon nationalism were allowed to prosper since the founding of Belgium.

Now, you might want to compare it to Switzerland? Why is Switzerland so much more united than Belgium is?

1. Switzerland (which started as a Alleman-German state) annexed the French regions significantly before Belgium was founded, so it has a bit more history.

2. Switzerland is divided into several cantons, many of whom have mixed populations. If Switzerland was divided into two main regions: Romandy (French-Switzerland) and another German entity, then things might have turned out more similar to Belgium but it didn't. Also, keep in mind that the Swiss cantons each have a large degree of autonomy. So basically after Switzerland annexed the French-speaking lands, they were integrated quickly and ended up with similar autonomy to everyone else, so separatism never really became an issue.

3. Swiss neutrality. Switzerland became neutral in 1815. Since then it has not really been bothered by anyone nor has it bothered anyone. Interestingly enough, it was also occupied by the French around the same time Belgium was (known as the "Helvetic Republic" then which is where it's current official name comes from). I feel like this has put Switzerland at a sense of peace and since no neighboring countries have ever claimed any of their regions in a long time nor has there been separatism there in a long time, separatism there hasn't really popped up.

[Dandelion]

Belgium will be united again when Muslims become the majority in both Flanders and Wallonia.

Mocking Sweden might not be wise coming from Belgium, but I still rest my case there. Their political correctness is off the charts and nearly unthinkable here at least. It is believed to be due to their Scandinavian Law of Jante mentality... Our restriction of the mind is rather provincialism and apathy than the bullying of opposing views from the state doctrine like we see in Sweden.

[Dandelion]

I'm going to watch this, I've only watched the first minute and I'm already triggered lol the linguistic divide has nothing to do with the french/HRE division (which is not correctly drawn in the vid, as the big majority of the french-speaking area was HRE and not France...) I'm going to watch the rest when I've time

I see what you mean. It's a disappointment that he didn't do his homework here, as those borders are very well-known and mentioned in most history books tackling the time period. Even Wiki and Google could've sufficed for him.

I listened to the beginning of the video instead of watching.

However I cut him some slack as he's summarising our history for laymen in a short video. But his maps should be correct, I agree there. No excuses.

[Mingle]

Was Belgium even country before the Napoleonic wars? I believe Britain protected their neutrality after Napoleon era and when the Germans invaded in 1914 Britain only then got involved in WWI.

It was just the Austrian Netherlands like Danielion said, but it wasn't called Belgium then. The United Belgian States were established in 1790 in an anti-Hapsburg revolt known as the Brabant Revolution. I think that is when the name Belgium first came. So technically, yes. But the UBS isn't a predecessor state to modern day Belgium which first came into existence in 1830.

[Dandelion]

It was just the Austrian Netherlands like Danielion said, but it wasn't called Belgium then. The United Belgian States were established in 1790 in an anti-Hapsburg revolt known as the Brabant Revolution. I think that is when the name Belgium first came. So technically, yes. But the UBS isn't a predecessor state to modern day Belgium which first came into existence in 1830.

The declaration of independent of the United Belgian States was written both in Dutch as in French, by the way. Belgium would later only recognise French as its only language. Some theories say that Flemish people also revolted against the Dutch language from the Netherlands. That either means many of our people had fallen that low that they've become severely ignorant or it's just propaganda because of the anti-Dutch character of early Belgium.

There did used to exist pastors and even bishops who clamoured against the 'so-called Dutch literature' and how it was a source of 'godlessness and protestant heresy', especially in West Flanders. These people did exist, but their call for a separate Flemish language always was shoved back in the closet by most Dutch-speaking intellectuals, even when they were underdogs in the early 19th century.

I myself hate them through and through, those provincialists. I compare them to Moldovans which Soviet Russians happily abused in their divida-et-impera politics.