Why is Belgium so divided?

**JohnSmith** · 12-18-2017, 10:49 PM

In all honesty countries with a lot of division even in Europe seems to really have a harder time. Northern Ireland and Belgium have both had many struggles in the last 50 years. Belgium had economic problems and Northern Ireland had sectarian problems. Both seem to be doing much better now. However, Belgium has a lot of places that are basically ungovernable due to radicals.

**Dandelion** · 12-18-2017, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Danielion

There did used to exist pastors and even bishops who clamoured against the 'so-called Dutch literature' and how it was a source of 'godlessness and protestant heresy', especially in West Flanders. These people did exist, but their call for a separate Flemish language always was shoved back in the closet by most Dutch-speaking intellectuals, even when they were underdogs in the early 19th century.

Correction. A bishop whose name escapes me once said we should be wary equally for the 'demon' of the protestant heresy of the 'so-called' Dutch literature as much as that of the godlessness of the French culture. Dutch were and still are more religious than French. Yes, those were roughly his pompous words (he said demon, that part I remember very well).

I might give you his name as soon as I find out, no promises. Didn't make this up. He was against our language being considered Dutch and would given the chance explain that to a Dutchman in a language he can understand. A language I consider Dutch as does a Dutch person listening in on him giving his anti-Dutch preach. Such idiocy.

**Dandelion** · 12-18-2017, 11:16 PM

Also ironically. Charles De Coster was a Francophone Belgian from Liège who was of mixed Flemish and Walloon heritage. He was very anti-clerical and also interested in his Dutch-speaking roots which he'd use as a theme for his books, most notably 'The Legend of Thyl Ulenspiegel and Lamme Goedzak'. The book was set during the Revolt in the late 16th century and sympathising with the Gueux/Geuzen.

That book was popular in France, but ignored in Belgium due to it going against the standards of Belgian nationalism.

The very same Charles De Coster hated the Flemish Movement. Why? For different reasons than most Francophones. He hated them because it was dominated by the Belgian Catholic Church which he believed kept Flemish people ignorant. He also differentiated between Brabantians and Flemish still. You can still see this in modern language to this day. The Tour of Flanders for instance takes place in historical Flanders not in the entire Flemish Region.

**Dandelion** · 12-18-2017, 11:49 PM

Appears Hilbert is Dutch, not Flemish. Alright. I got confused because he's strongly opinionated about this. He's most likely from North Brabant or Limburg, or even Zeelandic Flanders. That's why I probably didn't hear by his accent. I usually still do.

**Tchek** · 12-19-2017, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Mingle

3. Belgium being a new nation. It was only founded in 1830 as an independent nation. Prior to that, it had more shared history with the Netherlands than with Wallonia.

The region known today as Wallonia has always been historically linked to the Netherlands. It was the roman (speaking) part of it.

**Tchek** · 12-19-2017, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Danielion

Also ironically. Charles De Coster was a Francophone Belgian from Liège who was of mixed Flemish and Walloon heritage. He was very anti-clerical and also interested in his Dutch-speaking roots which he'd use as a theme for his books, most notably 'The Legend of Thyl Ulenspiegel and Lamme Goedzak'. The book was set during the Revolt in the late 16th century and sympathising with the Gueuex/Geuzen.

Or Guy de Namur fighting for Flanders and Godfried Van Brabant fighting for the French in 1302...
Actually, Orangists (while not a majority) were very numerous in Liège (mostly industrialists).
After all under the Dutch, the University was built, the Opera... I'm struggling to think of something noteworthy that has been built in 180 years of Belgium in Wallonia (in Brussels on the other hand...).
... I can think of many things that have been destroyed though, not only by wars.

**Dandelion** · 12-19-2017, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Tchek

Or Guy de Namur fighting for Flanders and Godfried Van Brabant fighting for the French in 1302...
Actually, Orangists (while not a majority) were very numerous in Liège (mostly industrialists).
After all under the Dutch, the University was built, the Opera... I'm struggling to think of something noteworthy that has been built in 180 years of Belgium in Wallonia (in Brussels on the other hand...).
... I can think of many things that have been destroyed though, not only by wars.

The most famous example of destruction I can think of for Liège was the Saint Lambert's Cathedral during the Liège Revolution in 1789 which is was very inspired by the French Revolution. Otherwise I guess early industrialisation had changed the landscape considerably later during the Belgian era. As for Brussels being more developed, isn't that also due to the fact Belgium was modelled after France in its early days? Even if France, however, is less centralised than it used to be or seeking to step out of that mentality.