Is South Tyrol Germanic?

[Percivalle]

South Tyrol is originally Celtic and Romance, the Germanic speakers are the last arrivals on that part of the Alps.

I can't say for South-Tyroleans of both ethicities, but Venetians and Austrians are significantly different, basicly an Austrian(western) can be modelled as approx. 1\2 N. Italian, 1\2 Swede.

Austro-Italian border is one of the strictest in genetic terms.

Austrian Tyroleans from Austrian Tyrol are more southern than the rest of Austrians, and German-speaking people from Italian South Tyrol can't be more northern than the Austrian Tyroleans, very likely they are more southern. In that model North Italian is based on a sample from Bergamo (Lombardy), Venetians on average are more north-eastern shifted than the sample from Bergamo (Lombardy).


Made by French user Tolan

[Raizen]

South Tyrol is originally Celtic and Romance, the Germanic speakers are the last arrivals on that part of the Alps.

Austrian Tyroleans from Austrian Tyrol are more southern than the rest of Austrians, and German-speaking people from Italian South Tyrol can't be more northern than the Austrian Tyroleans, very likely they are more southern. In that model North Italian is based on a sample from Bergamo (Lombardy), Venetians on average are more north-eastern shifted than the sample from Bergamo (Lombardy).

Made by French user Tolan

For me it is more than obvious that Venetians have either Slovenian or (most likely) Austrian ancestry, in plot maps they plot very close to trentino samples and their shift towards these countries is easily noticeable

[Mingle]

Why, it enriches Italy. By the same logic Sardinia should also become part of Spain and the southern cantons of Switzerland become part of Italy.

How would you like it if a region of Greece went to Bulgaria after WWII? Would you be okay with it being part of Bulgaria because it "enriches them"? I don't really have a strong opinion on South Tyrol either way but the enrichment argument is probably the dumbest one I've heard of.

[Percivalle]

I wonder how different Italo- and Germanophones are genetically in the region.

I have never seen the results of a Germanophone from South Tyrol but this is how are modelled a couple of Italians from Trentino. The third is an Austrian from Eastern Tyrol, Austria. He is fully Austrian except some maternal ancestors from Moravian Silesia and Bohemia (Czech Republic), Slovakia and South Germany (Baden-Württemberg).

1) Italian from Trentino

Spoiler!

3 76.5% North_Italian + 23.5% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.05
5 68% North_Italian + 32% East_German @ 3.31
6 77.1% North_Italian + 22.9% North_Swedish @ 3.36
7 76.8% North_Italian + 23.2% Swedish @ 3.5
10 72.3% North_Italian + 27.7% North_German @ 3.58
11 78.9% North_Italian + 21.1% Finnish @ 3.61
12 81.2% North_Italian + 18.8% Estonian @ 3.63
15 76.8% North_Italian + 23.2% Norwegian @ 3.71
18 74.8% North_Italian + 25.2% Danish @ 3.72
19 64.2% North_Italian + 35.8% South_Dutch @ 3.77
20 65.4% North_Italian + 34.6% Austrian @ 3.83

2) Italian from Trentino

Spoiler!

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
3 59.8% North_Italian + 40.2% Hungarian @ 5
11 72.4% North_Italian + 27.6% Swedish @ 5.48
14 62.6% North_Italian + 37.4% East_German @ 5.54
15 59.6% North_Italian + 40.4% West_German @ 5.54
20 72.1% North_Italian + 27.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 5.66

3) Austrian from Eastern Tyrol

Spoiler!

1 74.8% Austrian + 25.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.51
2 75.2% Austrian + 24.8% Portuguese @ 2.57
3 76.4% Austrian + 23.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.6
4 75.4% Austrian + 24.6% North_Italian @ 2.6
5 74.7% Austrian + 25.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.63
6 78.4% Austrian + 21.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.7
7 74.4% Austrian + 25.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.77
8 78.7% Austrian + 21.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.8
9 77.1% Austrian + 22.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.8
10 78.5% Austrian + 21.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.9
11 78.3% Austrian + 21.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.03
12 80.6% Austrian + 19.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.08
16 78.9% Austrian + 21.1% Southwest_French @ 3.28
17 90.2% Austrian + 9.8% Sardinian @ 3.3
19 80.8% Austrian + 19.2% Tuscan @ 3.33

[Cristiano viejo]

Why not.
I don't have any problem with that.
Actually people in Roussillon have no intention and never had any to join Spain.
But if Catalonia was to become an independant country why not.

What current people of Rosellón (something you dont know) want is irrelevant, Rosellón and Cerdaña always were, are and will be Spanish lands.

[caviezel]

What current people of Rosellón (something you dont know) want is irrelevant, Rosellón and Cerdaña always were, are and will be Spanish lands.

France has a jacobine mentality: there's no room for localism and regional identities. They left the original place names in Corsica probably because Napoleon III insisted about it and they bregrudgingly recognize Roussillon and the Basque part of Bearn because Basques and Catalans were very vocal about it.
They also left some original german names in Alsace because the rest of the world was aware of how sensitive Nazis were about it so they figured out it was for the better to leave some german names but german is no longer spoken by Alsatians.

[Mens-Sarda]

What current people of Rosellón (something you dont know) want is irrelevant, Rosellón and Cerdaña always were, are and will be Spanish lands.

Sardinia was unwillingly "gifted" by Pope Boniface VIII to the Kingdom of Aragona in XIIIth century, it was never a Spanish land before, like it was never connected to Italian matters until XVIIIth century; the Kingdom of Aragona had to fight for 100 years to conquer Sardinia, from 1323 to 1420, losing entire armies, rows of nobles and their heirs and tons of money, just to occupy a distant island always on the verge of rebellion.

[MinervaItalica]

*Alto Adige.



German speaking people from there don't even care to be part of Austria. I saw in an interview to some people from Alto Adige that they don't ven care to get the Austrian citizenship and the funny thing is that they were speaking in a very good Italian (recently Austria said that want to give Austrian citizenship to the German speaking people of Alto Adige, pure political propaganda imo).

[Dandelion]

*Alto Adige.



German speaking people from there don't even care to be part of Austria. I saw in an interview to some people from Alto Adige that they don't ven care to get the Austrian citizenship and the funny thing is that they were speaking in a very good Italian (recently Austria said that want to give Austrian citizenship to the German speaking people of Alto Adige, pure political propaganda imo).

It's a question of being smart about it.

You have to respect them enough to keep loyalism at least around 50%. So provocation can happen occasionally, but never too blatantly. Just now and then and frolic in nature.

As did the woman reporter here.

[Bobby Martnen]

Yes, it's Germanic and Austrian.

Absolutely nothing to do with Italians other than the fact it was given to them as a spoil of war.