NOBILITY in your country. Post how much.

[Drusilla]

Not probable, as at the end of 18th century there was hundrets of thousands of people.

2000 can be just in association.

2,000 families, but around 40,000-50,000 people.

The ANF is very strict when it comes to acknowledging nobility titles.

[Böri]

Or how the Ottoman Empire was ruled by Albanian Vezirs.

The Sultans, blue blood, were all from the lineage of Osman, son of Ertuğrul from the Kayı Oğuzes.

Vezirs were of different origins but only 2 families in history of Ottomans were priviliged and allowed to be 'vezir dynasties, (multiple grand viziers from same family).

1. Çandarlı family (Turcoman origin): during the rise of the beylik and progress years of the empire
2. Köprülü family (Albanian origin): during the 17th century mostly... stagnation years

[Bosniensis]

The Sultans, blue blood, were all from the lineage of Osman, son of Ertuğrul from the Kayı Oğuzes.

Vezirs were of different origins but only 2 families in history of Ottomans were priviliged and allowed to be 'vezir dynasties, (multiple grand viziers from same family).

1. Çandarlı family (Turcoman origin): during the rise of the beylik and progress years of the empire
2. Köprülü family (Albanian origin): during the 17th century mostly... stagnation years

Sultans were Greeks.

Mehmed II Fatih was son of Michael (Murat) from Thrace, and Mara Branković (Serbia).

Ottoman Empire was run by Islamicized Greeks, Serbs, Albanians ... nobody else.

Those Turks that conquered Anatolia 1071 joined that Empire later, Sultanate of Rum was Turkic though.



For example, Niketas Choniates (or Acominatus, 1155–1215 or-16) in his history about Emperor Ioannes Komnenos: "... Shortly after this, he campaigned against the nation of Triballians (whom someone may call Serbians as well) ..."[23] or the much later Demetrios Chalkondyles (1423–1511), referring to an Islamized Christian noble: "... This Mahmud, son of Michael, is Triballian, which means Serbian, by his mother, and Greek by his father."[24] or Mehmed the Conqueror when referring to the plundering of Serbia.

[Lucia]

To be noble you must have Turkic blood, otherwise it doesn't count in reality in a historical sense.
Modern Anglo-Saxon supremacist white racism tried to change that a bid but in historical depth, that doesn't change.

Uncivilized Varangian Rus tribes adopted a Khazar dissent as leader and made him their own Kaghan during 8th century, that's how Russian state (Rus Kaghanate) was born.
Chinese still claim that their best historical dynasty, the Tang was started by assimilated Turkic people.
Hungarians were a Uralic people not so outstanding, like Mordva or Udmurt, if they rose to power in the middle of Europe it's because a Turkic noble class ruled them.

Not to mention the high nobility lineage of Ottomans and Seljuks; Ottomans Kayı clan Oğuz and Seljuks being Kınık clan Oğuz.
Or how Iran was ruled 1000 years by Turkic noble classes.

Oh, come on, doesn’t count according to whom? This is the first time I’m hearing of this criteria...

[Böri]

Sultans were Greeks.

Mehmed II Fatih was son of Michael (Murat) from Thrace, and Mara Branković (Serbia).

Ottoman Empire was run by Islamicized Greeks, Serbs, Albanians ... nobody else.

Those Turks that conquered Anatolia 1071 joined that Empire later, Sultanate of Rum was Turkic though.



For example, Niketas Choniates (or Acominatus, 1155–1215 or-16) in his history about Emperor Ioannes Komnenos: "... Shortly after this, he campaigned against the nation of Triballians (whom someone may call Serbians as well) ..."[23] or the much later Demetrios Chalkondyles (1423–1511), referring to an Islamized Christian noble: "... This Mahmud, son of Michael, is Triballian, which means Serbian, by his mother, and Greek by his father."[24] or Mehmed the Conqueror when referring to the plundering of Serbia.

ha ha ha amqaskasdf
Mehmet II the Fatih was the son of Murad II (victorious at Varna 1444) and the grandson of Mehmet I.
Mehmet I was the son of Bayezid (victorious at Kosovo and Nicopolis).

After Timur slapped Bayezid at Ankara battle, his son Suleyman escaped with Serb allies and Lazarovic to Balkans.
He was friendly to Byzantines, Hospitalers and Serbs.
When Suleyman started to be unpopular, Turkmen colonist villagers around Babaeski (near Edirne) killed him.

Mehmet I, given Amasya region by Timur in 1402 who was distributing Ottoman lands among sons of Bayezid, thus ultimately won the Ottoman civil war.
The lineage was unbroken.

Osman son of Ertuğrul (Kayı clan tribal leader) -> Orkhan -> Murat I -> Bayezid -> Mehmet I -> Murat II -> Mehmet II Fatih

Father to son.
Unbroken.
And unbroken until 1922...
623 years unbroken father-to-son dynasty is only the Osmans, none is match with them. They are world number 1 historically.

[Marmara]

Sultans were Greeks.

Mehmed II Fatih was son of Michael (Murat) from Thrace, and Mara Branković (Serbia).

Ottoman Empire was run by Islamicized Greeks, Serbs, Albanians ... nobody else.

Those Turks that conquered Anatolia 1071 joined that Empire later, Sultanate of Rum was Turkic though.



For example, Niketas Choniates (or Acominatus, 1155–1215 or-16) in his history about Emperor Ioannes Komnenos: "... Shortly after this, he campaigned against the nation of Triballians (whom someone may call Serbians as well) ..."[23] or the much later Demetrios Chalkondyles (1423–1511), referring to an Islamized Christian noble: "... This Mahmud, son of Michael, is Triballian, which means Serbian, by his mother, and Greek by his father."[24] or Mehmed the Conqueror when referring to the plundering of Serbia.

Why do you try to Hellenize Turks? Is this an attempt to Europeanize Ottoman Empire therefore Islam? It's not going to work, even if all those things you said were true (they are not) Ottoman Empire would still not be seen European, because European = Christian, get used to it.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

My great-great grandparents bought a manor and the surrounding land from a count that was in debt. My father has found memories playing there.

Nobility rises and falls.

[Böri]

Oh, come on, doesn’t count according to whom? This is the first time I’m hearing of this criteria...

Let's not forget that there was the Avar kaghanate around Slavonia and Central Croatia between 568 and 790s.
Avars had a state, an organized army and a nobility when nobody around Balkans or central Europe had anything close.
And there is also a theory that early Croat nobles could possibly linked to sort of Avars. Just a hypothesis among others.

[Böri]

Why do you try to Hellenize Turks? Is this an attempt to Europeanize Ottoman Empire therefore Islam? It's not going to work, even if all those things you said were true (they are not) Ottoman Empire would still not be seen European, because European = Christian, get used to it.

Catholic and Protestant offshot to be precise.
Orthodox, Byzantine, Eastern people like Greeks and Serbs aren't part of the European culture and civilization in a historical sense.

[Marmara]

Catholic and Protestant offshot to be precise.
Orthodox, Byzantine people like Greeks and Serbs aren't part of the European culture and civilization in a historical sense.

True, but the name "European" is tricky, i don't like them claiming the whole continent so i would simply say "Western". Balkanites are Geographically European.