Difference between Albanians and Greeks?

[Rizza]

Here is a PCA Map I created very quick with some averages I gathered , Albanians on average plot more North and More West next to some North Italians

The South-North Cline goes this way <---- ---->





Of course these are just averages, and there is individual variation. North-East Italy and some other North Italian regions such as Trentino-Alto-Adige are not shown on the map as they are north of Veneto

[Cristiano viejo]

These are statistics according to Albanian Y-DNA project , EV-13 ranges on average between 20%-30%,

That is exactly what I said (27% to be exact, according Eupedia).

more or less similar to even some Spanish regions. EV-13 was found in Neolithic Spain also.

Which Spanish regions????

[Firenna]

Here is a PCA Map I created very quick with some averages I gathered , Albanians on average plot more North and More West next to some North Italians

The South-North Cline goes this way <---- ---->





Of course these are just averages, and there is individual variation. North-East Italy and some other North Italian regions such as Trentino-Alto-Adige are not shown on the map as they are north of Veneto

More like Southwest-Northeast.

[Rizza]

Italian and Greek regional averages I got are from G25 official btw , Albanian regions I got from other DNA forums , I did not add all Albanian regions, some Southern/Central Albanians regions are like Tuscany, Thessaly basically .

[zebruh]

a quick search gives a figure of 500K Turks from Greece exchanged with Turkey. Given that the population of Greece at the time was around 5 million (according to Google), this would mean that muslims made up around 10%. In my opinion it would have been a case similar to what is Bulgaria now (around 10-15% muslim).

Its because greeks mixed alot with carians and carians were indigenous to anatolia who also lived to the agean. So they will look like turks on autosomal dna and its why greeks get alot of middle eastern like scores.
Most turks arent actually decended from gok turks or whatever or have substantial ancestry from them.

[wvwvw]

Its because greeks mixed alot with carians and carians were indigenous to anatolia who also lived to the agean. So they will look like turks on autosomal dna and its why greeks get alot of middle eastern like scores.
Most turks arent actually decended from gok turks or whatever or have substantial ancestry from them.

The Carians, Lydians, Lycians and Phrygians were Maonians who split into Phrygians, Carians, Lydians, and Lycians.

These people came from Crete and the Phrygians used to live above the Macedonians. They were all most likely Minoan period Greeks who left Greece when the Hellenes came and settled in Macedonia.

The Hittites/Hettaioi/Eteocretans also came from Crete and had for most of their existance Greek or Phrygian kings, and used the Crypto-Minoan script for four centuries. After their Empire was destroyed they fell under the influence of Assyrians, which caused them to change their Greco-Hittite language (hich was spoken throughout Greece,Balkans and Anatolia). The Greeks knew the Hittites as Assyrians. The Hittite Empire was over by 1200 BC.

The fact they came from Crete had no bearing on the origin of the Hittites. The Hittite genome split into 3 different mutations 45,000 years ago in the region of northern Syria-Anatolia which is why one marker is concentrated in Colchis (Georgia) the place of its origin while the other predominant marker is concentrated in Anatolia and Greece, and the third is concentrated in Lebanon.

The Lydians were a Greco-Hitttite race and so were the Carians and Lycians.

Tyrsenoi Lydians migrated to Italy after the Thera Eruption. Lydian doesn't appear until 600 BC, which is about the time that the Lydians went into alliance with the Ionians. In 1400 BC the Greek God Dionysus (Tudhaliya III, Thurgal as the Bible calls him, Tidal, Dagon, Tauro Kranos 1400 BC) ruled over 
Anatolia, and after being deposed in a coup came to Greece. Dionysus is Di-Wo-Ni-So-Jo in Mycenaean.

The Lycians were Cretans and an Athenian colony. They spoke 
Mycenaean. Lycia was founded by the Greek king Lycus and it was inhabited formerly by Minoans and then by Achaean Greeks. In Michael Wood's Search of the Trojan War, the Hittites were at war with the Achaean Greek Lycians.

Lycia was founded by Sarpedon the brother of Minos in 1410 BC (Jerome Chronicon) and was named after Lycos the son of Pandion II in 1270 BC. The tribe Lucani of Italy and Lucania come from Lycians.

[Apoll. 3.1.2] [Hdts. 1.173.1] [Paus. 7.2.5]
"So long as Sarpedon reigned, his followers kept the name which they brought 
with them from Crete, and were called Termilae, as the Lycians still are by 
those who live in their neighbourhood."

Herodotus:
[1.173.1] The Lycians are in good truth anciently from Crete; which island, in former days, was wholly peopled with barbarians. A quarrel arising there between the two sons of Europa, Sarpedon and Minos, as to which of them should be king, Minos, whose party prevailed, drove Sarpedon and his followers into banishment. The exiles sailed to Asia, and landed on the Milyan territory. Milyas was the ancient name of the country now inhabited by the Lycians: the Milyae of the present day were, in those times, called Solymi. So long as Sarpedon reigned, his followers kept the name which they brought with them from Crete, and were called Termilae, as the Lycians still are by those who live in their neighbourhood. But after Lycus, the son of Pandion, banished from Athens by his brother Aegeus had found a refuge with Sarpedon in the country of these Termilae, they came, in course of time, to be called from him Lycians. Their customs are partly Cretan, partly Carian. They have, however, one singular custom in which they differ from every other nation in the world. They take the mother's and not the father's name. Ask a Lycian who he is, and he answers by giving his own name, that of his mother, and so on in the female line. Moreover, if a free woman marry a man who is a slave, their children are full citizens; but if a free man marry a foreign woman, or live with a concubine, even though he be the first person in the State, the children forfeit all the rights of citizenship."

The Carians were Maonians like the Tyrsenoi. Tiglath-Pilaser attacked the Greek region of Lycia in 1110 BC as well as Caria and possibly Crete. The Ionian and Aeolian migrations probably occured as a result of Tiglath Pilasers destruction of the Carians. Crete, Anatolia, Media, and Persia did not come of the Dark Ages until Assyrian power was brought to an end in about 700BC by numerous rebellions against Senecherib, havein cause the Dark Ages when Assyria became the master of Asia and stifled all free trade.

The earliest account for the name Phrygians was that it was 
originally Brygians from Brygus the king of Spain in about 1540 BC who 
founded a colony next to what became Macedonians so any language that the Tyrsenoi spoke must be related first to Phrygian and then to Macedonian Greek. So look to Spanish or maybe even Basque.

So long before the Aeolian and Ionian migrations Aegean Islands and most of the coast of Asia-Minor was already Greek and admitted to being Greek by the Hittites themselves.

[wvwvw]

Herodotus:
[1.173.1] The Lycians are in good truth anciently from Crete; which island, in former days, was wholly peopled with barbarians.

In Herodotus time any non Hellene was a barbarian, including Greek speaking tribes like Pelasgians. And anyone who did not speak the Hellenic dialect of Greek like the Pelasgians who spoke Arcado-Cypriot/Mycenean were a barbarian, despite he explicitly states that all Hellenic dialects (Doric, Aeolic and Attic-Ionic) derive from Pelasgian.

[Rizza]

Difference is that Albanians are more north and west and every single Albanian region including Southern Albania cluster next to Northern Italians and Tuscans
Except for Greece Thessaly and Some Macedonians every Greek region is even more South than Southern Albania and more east, also southern / central Italians are more south on average and many even shift more east.

One Iron Age Illyrian is south of Tuscany and some samples in Macedonia are south and there are Albanians who plot south like that too but overall picture of average regions I have added on pca maps I am talking about here . Even many southern shifted Albanians are not as south as some Greeks, Thracians or even some Southern/Central Italians nor shift as East.

[wvwvw]

Hittite samples from 1750 BC

Kit Number: Z020190

PuntDNAL K12

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 47.26
2 Caucasus_HG 34.77
3 Near_East 14.50
4 European_HG 3.12


Finished reading population data. 135 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cypriot @ 6.935007
2 Druze @ 10.994926
3 Turkish_Jew @ 14.822724
4 Sicilian_East @ 15.314612
5 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 15.611962
6 Moroccan_Jew @ 15.721437
7 Assyrian @ 16.169197
8 Turkish_Kayseri @ 16.760128
9 Tunisian_Jew @ 16.816135
10 Iranian_Jew @ 16.839214
11 Armenian @ 17.485435
12 Iraqi_Jew @ 18.015112
13 Libyan_Jew @ 18.145651
14 Lebanese @ 18.156378
15 Sicilian_West @ 18.457388
16 Syrian @ 19.995495
17 Laz @ 20.040901
18 Palestinian @ 20.930710
19 Turkish_Trabzon @ 20.976038
20 Georgian_Jew @ 21.219385

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% Cypriot @ 6.935007


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Druze +25% Sardinian +25% Turkish_Trabzon @ 5.844772

Eurogenes K13

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 42.41
2 West_Med 26.84
3 West_Asian 22.52
4 Red_Sea 4.61
5 North_Atlantic 3.61


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Cyprian @ 8.972751
2 Lebanese_Christian @ 15.004678
3 Lebanese_Muslim @ 15.063251
4 Samaritan @ 15.162564
5 Tunisian_Jewish @ 17.403482
6 Algerian_Jewish @ 17.440098
7 Syrian @ 17.687239
8 Libyan_Jewish @ 18.073921
9 Lebanese_Druze @ 18.260983
10 Sephardic_Jewish @ 18.392298
11 Italian_Jewish @ 18.535755
12 Assyrian @ 19.442945
13 South_Italian @ 19.825220
14 Kurdish_Jewish @ 19.852375
15 Jordanian @ 20.816086
16 Iranian_Jewish @ 21.012079
17 Palestinian @ 21.370081
18 East_Sicilian @ 22.692663
19 Georgian_Jewish @ 22.722448
20 Ashkenazi @ 22.969913

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cyprian +50% Cyprian @ 8.972751


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Assyrian +25% Lebanese_Christian +25% Sardinian @ 8.520500

MDLP K23b

Spoiler!

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 48.92
2 European_Early_Farmers 25.13
3 Near_East 13.54
4 South_Central_Asian 5.42
5 North_African 5.11
6 African_Pygmy 1.23


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Islands_ @ 8.805417
2 Cypriot_ @ 9.266016
3 Greek_Smyrna_ @ 11.211859
4 Italian_Jew_ @ 13.447717
5 French_Jew_ @ 14.134159
6 Turk_Jew_ @ 14.209823
7 Sephardic_Jew_ @ 14.274565
8 Christian_Arabs_Israel_ @ 14.341336
9 Sicilian_Center_ @ 14.360955
10 Cretan_ @ 14.496547
11 Italian_South_ @ 14.845836
12 Syrian_Jew_ @ 15.162273
13 Sicilian_East_ @ 15.701872
14 Romanian_Jew_ @ 16.193060
15 Sicilian_Siracusa_ @ 16.922123
16 Moroccan_Jew_ @ 16.983034
17 Sicilian_Agrigento_ @ 17.003237
18 Lebanese_Druze_ @ 17.126554
19 Lebanese_Christian_ @ 17.236076
20 Greek_Athens_ @ 17.320421

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot_ +50% Greek_Islands_ @ 8.101921


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Christian_Arabs_Israel_ +25% Georgian_Laz_ +25% Sardinian_ @ 4.099204

Hilarious that Hittite samples from 1750 BC come out as 50% Cypriot+50% Cypriot

and 50% Cypriot+50% Greek islands,

but it proves historians were correct.

The Hittite Anatolians were also carriers of the J2 linage and split from
the rule of the Minoan Greeks at the time of Cronos in 1700 BC and then came
under the middle eastern influence of the Assyro-Babylonians. This is the
time the Hittite Empire started.

[Rizza]

It's mostly Northern Greeks like Thessaly and Macedonia who overlap with Albanians that's why people get that.