Is North Italy part of Central Europe?

[Stears]

Please, tell me, where do you see a mediterranean character in this city (TORINO)?



or here, MILANO?

I have not say it is medo. This city character looks rather French , than central European. France is considered part of western Europe.

[Stears]

Langobarda, why are you offended ?? I'm said good things about Italy.

[Longobarda]

Geographically it is central or continental Europe but historically, genetically it is Southern Europe. Unless you believe North Italians are latinized Germans. Southern France is also considered Southern Europe. Anyway, what matters is how North Italians view themselves. Compared to Southern Italians they may feel Central Euros but compared to Austrians they probably consider themselves Southern.

Historically? What about Golasecca, Remedello or Canegrate being the first centers of celtic cultures together with Halstatt? What about the dominations of Heruli, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Longobards and Franks? What about celts in all northern Italy (and central Italy as well)?
Genetically? I am FED UP about your PLOTTING, not considering the fact that the Alps were a refugia of neolithic people, i.e. their DNA as well. Instead of plotting anthing, please consider our DNA components one by one. The autosomal is a real SHIT.

And yes, we probably are latinized germans/celts. Have you ever been here?

[Longobarda]

Langobarda, why are you offended ?? I'm said good things about Italy.

I'm not offended. I simply try to state the truth. Many in this forum think that it is enough to "plot" something or something else to have discovered the truth. But as someone said, "how is it possible that central european bell beaker and corded ware plot the same when one is pretty R1b and the other is R1a?"

[Longobarda]

I have not say it is medo. This city character looks rather French , than central European. France is considered part of western Europe.

Torino look clearly french (I mean it's architecture), Milano looks more swiss than french.

[Longobarda]

We used the proportion of sequences mapping to the Y chromosome to infer sex (Extended Data Table 4; Supplementary Information section 4), and determined Y chromosome haplogroups for the males. We were surprised to find haplogroup R1b in the ~14,000-year-old Villabruna individual from Italy. While the predominance of R1b in western Europe today owes its origin to Bronze Age migrations from the eastern European steppe⁹, its presence in Villabruna and in a ~7,000-year-old farmer from Iberia⁹document a deeper history of this haplotype in more western parts of Europe. Additional evidence of an early link between west and east comes from the HERC2 locus, where a derived allele that is the primary driver of light eye color in Europeans appears nearly simultaneously in specimens from Italy and the Caucasus ~14,000-13,000 years ago. Extended Data Table 5 presents results for additional alleles of known phenotypic importance. When analyzing the mitochondrial genomes we note the presence of haplogroup M in a ~27,000-year-old individual from southern Italy (Ostuni1) in agreement with the observation that this haplogroup, which today occurs in Asia and is absent in Europe, was present in pre-Last Glacial Maximum Europe and became lost during the Ice Age²⁶. We also find that the ~33,000 year old Muierii2 from Romania carries a basal version of haplogroup U6, in agreement with the hypothesis that the presence of derived versions of this haplogroup in North Africans today is due to back-migration from western Eurasia²⁷.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4943878/

Villabruna is in NORTHERN ITALY

Now deal with it!

[Ouistreham]

Torino look clearly french (I mean it's architecture), Milano looks more swiss than french.

Remarkable bullshit.

Anyway major towns aren't representative in any way of anything.
Stockholm's Gamla Stan looks more Florentine, Roman or downright Neapolitan than many Italian towns!

Turin is a wonder of early city planning with its long straight streets and large square, but you cannot say wheter it's "southern", "Central" or "Northern European". It's simply unique in its own way.

Minor cities are much more representative of the regions they belong to.
Look at Sirmione, on the shore of the Garda lake in Northern Lombardy:



Or Muggia, a suburb or Trieste on the border to Slovenia ; can you swear that there is nothing Southern European or Mediterranean there?
Does it seriously remind of Austria, Switzerland, Bavaria?....

[Longobarda]

Remarkable bullshit.

Anyway major towns aren't representative in any way of anything.
Stockholm's Gamla Stan looks more Florentine, Roman or downright Neapolitan than many Italian towns!

Turin is a wonder of early city planning with its long straight streets and large square, but you cannot say wheter it's "southern", "Central" or "Northern European". It's simply unique in its own way.

Minor cities are much more representative of the regions they belong to.
Look at Sirmione, on the shore of the Garda lake in Northern Lombardy:


Or Muggia, a suburb or Trieste on the border to Slovenia ; can you swear that there is nothing Southern European or Mediterranean there?
Does it seriously remind of Austria, Switzerland, Bavaria?....

Of course the lakes have a micro-climath which changes the caracteristics of the latitude they are. Cornwall, for example has a micro-climath which makes grow flowers which are mediterranean. Or Lugano lake, do you think it reflects something swiss or is very similar to Como lake?
And as I said BEFORE (if you would have red) it is not only the architecture which makes you central european.

I see you have IGNORED the alpine lakes or Como, Maggiore lakes. Garda lake is the most mediterranean lake (being so big) you can find at that latitude.

COMO LAKE, hence very different from Garda lake

[Longobarda]

Orta lake with in the backgroud the Maggiore Lake

[Longobarda]

Lago di Iseo (Bergamo province, Lombardy)