As a whole, do Filipinos and Indonesians pass better in Korea or Bangladesh?

[Zanzibar]

Yes for both, South Maluku and Timor Leste has the least Indian influence in the entire region.My mother is Ambonese and on Ancestry ONLY scored Austronesian/Phillipines, Melanesia,and Poylnesia.

North Maluku like Ternate, Halmahera still have more Indian influence than South?

Btw here are the Indian ancestry for each Indonesian group using Global 25 by David: https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/...obal25_12.html

Eastern Indonesians: I use Tamil Nadu Brahmin to represent Indian ancestry in them since SE Asians mostly receive their Indian input from upper or mid caste South Indians. They seem to have around 2-6% Indian (Tamil Brahmin) on average. LAO_LN_BA = Late Neolithic Bronze Age sample from Laos. It represents ancient Austroasiatic component. Murut is a Austronesian tribe from Borneo while Hanben_IA is an Iron Age sample from Taiwan which also represents ancient Austronesians. I add these two Austronesian components to improve the distance for my genetic models (the better the distance fit, the more accurate the model is). Also Yemenite_Mahra is also included in the run to see if these Indonesians have any Middle Eastern admixture or not.

The most Indian mixed Eastern Indonesian ethnic groups seem to be the Lamaholot from Flores, Lembata and the Ngadha from Bena in Flores. Meanwhile, the least Indian mixed seem to be ethnic Tetum from Umaklaran, Timor and Mandar from Sulawesi.



Now I replace Tamil Brahmin with AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indian) which is the indigenous component of South Asians/Desis distantly related to Negritos, Aboriginals and Melanesians. Ganj Dareh which is an Iranian Neolithic Farmer/Iran N and Sintashta_MLBA from Russia which is a Steppe component. South Asians/Desis are a mixture between AASI + two main Caucasoid components; first which is Iranian Neolithic (genetically closest to modern day Baloch/Brahui/Makrani and pretty different from Iranians/Persians and other West Asian Iranics who are heavily Anatolian_Neolithic and Levant_Neolithic admixed) and the second, which is Steppe who are the closest to modern day Eastern Euros and Northern Euros. So these two Caucasoid components along with AASI are indicators of Indian admixture in a population.

As can observed below, the Ngada tribe from Flores score 3.6% Caucasoid/West Eurasian (Iran_N + Steppe) and 2.4% AASI while the two Lamaholot populations from Flores and Lembata score 3.2% and 3% Caucasoid and 3.6% and 3.8% AASI on average. On the other hand, the Tetum from Umaklaran, Timor who possess the lowest Caucasoid admixture at 0.6% while having 3% AASI followed by the ethnic Kambera from Rindi in Sumba who have the second lowest West Eurasian at 1.4% while having 1.4% AASI.



Now let's compared with Western Indonesians which also include the remote Mentawai and Nias tribes from islands west of Sumatra, who seem to be predominantly Austronesians. I will also add ethnic Malays from Malaysia and Singapore also into this run to compare.

First we will start with the amount of Indian ancestry which I will employ the Tamil Nadu Brahmin for this run again. As can be seen here, Batak Toba from Sumatra seem to have the highest South Asian at almost 13% followed by the two Malay populations from Malaysia and Singapore at 11% and approximately 10% Indian. Surprisingly, the Indonesian_Bali and Indonesian_Java have much lower South Asian than thought, at only 4% and 2% respectively. I have a feeling that the scientists who collect the kits might selectively sample people from rural areas of Bali and Java (likely from Central Java near Dieng so they are probably all Javanese rather than Sundanese or Madurese) rather than in cities and other urban areas because I don't know how else to explain why they have much lower Indian than I thought. I am pretty sure if the researchers also sample people from cities and urban areas of Bali and Java besides the remote countryside, you are gonna see much higher Indian admixture than the amount these G25 samples possessed. Also Balinese likely higher South Asian than Indonesian_Java (very likely all Javanese) because its a much smaller island making the Indian gene flow spread out more evenly among the Balinese I would speculate.

The Nias and Mentawai tribes have the lowest Indian which is not that surprising, as they are geographically very isolated compared to other Western Indonesians.



The distance fit for Malaysian Malay isn't that good yet (its 0.0237, a good fit would be 0.01 or lower) so in the next run, I decide to add Han_Zhejiang as Malaysia seem to have a lot of Chinese migrants as well. Looks like I was right, the distance fit for Malay_Malaysia improve tremendously. What's interesting is now almost every Western Indonesian group here except Balinese now score minor Chinese, but this could be some extra Austronesian affinity rather than actual Chinese ancestry as Chinese migrants to SE Asia are Southern Chinese who already have lots of Austronesian and Tai-Kadai-related ancestries.



Repeating the process with the Eastern Indonesian run which is substituting the Tamil Brahmins with the AASI and two Caucasoid (Iranian Neolithic Farmer/Iran_N and Steppe) for Western Indonesians and Malays. Batak Toba of Sumatra have the highest Caucasoid ancestry at 8% Western Eurasian (Iran_N+Steppe) and 6% AASI followed by the Malays of Malaysia and Singapore at 5.6 and 6% Caucasoid while having 4% and 3% AASI respectively. On the other hand, the Balinese score 3.2% Caucasoid, 0.8% AASI, Javanese score only 1.6% Caucasoid and literally zero AASI. Finally the Nias and Mentawai have very noise level amounts of West Eurasian which means they could actually lack Caucasoid admixture and only 0.8 to 1.4% AASI at most (the AASI in the case of Mentawai and Nias might actually be the indigenous AASI-like ancestry rather than the AASI mediated from Indians as they barely have any West Eurasian).



- Anyway as we can see here, the Malays and some Western Indonesians such as Batak Toba indeed have higher South Asian than Eastern Indonesians. On the other hand, most Eastern Indonesian G25 samples surprisingly have the same amount or even slightly higher Indian ancestry than certain Western Indos like the Balinese and Javanese which is surprising and doesn't make much sense. Its probably due to the sampling bias of the individuals collected from Bali and Java tbh like the scientists choosing only the sample villagers from rural areas rather than city and urban folks.

- It's fascinating how the Batak seem to have much higher Austronesian blood than the Javanese, Balinese despite located further west in Sumatra closer to Indochina.

- Also its surprising their are some predominantly Austronesian groups without much outside admixture such as Nias and Mentawai despite them being located so far away from Taiwan and Philippines.

-Looks like most of the Caucasoid/West Eurasian ancestry in Eastern Indonesians also come from Indians rather than Europeans. Even Arabs (represented by Yemenite_Mahra in the my model runs) didn't seem to have much genetic impact.

-It's interesting how the Ngada and Lamaholot have the highest Caucasoid, but they live in Flores so they probably receive Indian gene flow from Java, Bali. What's strange is how the Sumbanese (Anakalang and Kambera) have lower Western admix despite geographically just south of Flores and not that far from Sumbawa and Lombok.

-I'm a bit surprised the Mandar of Western Sulawesi have low Indian and West Eurasian considering how they are located fairly close from Kutai, an Indianized kingdom in Eastern Borneo. I wager the Bugis and Makassarese of Southern Sulawesi will have more Indian and Western Eurasian admix considering that the Bugis seem to engage in piracy and probably trades with many peoples including Indians, Arabs, Europeans while Makassar seems to be a urban cosmopolitan place back in history. Also maybe the Gorontalo who are Muslims in Northern Sulawesi will have some Arab or Indian admixture as well. Unfortunately we don't have their samples in G25 so we can only guess.

Btw here are the most West Eurasian admixed individuals for each Eastern Indonesian and Western Indonesian ethnic group:

Target: Alor16:GRC10047550
Distance: 1.5033% / 0.01503310
45.4 Papuan
28.4 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
19.4 Murut
4.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
1.0 LAO_LN_BA
0.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)


Target: Anakalang_Sumba13:GRC11053486
Distance: 2.7307% / 0.02730669
57.8 Murut
24.8 Papuan
13.8 LAO_LN_BA
3.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
0.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)


Target: Bajo:GS000017006
Distance: 1.7451% / 0.01745054
37.0 Murut
28.6 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
20.2 LAO_LN_BA
8.8 Papuan
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)


Target: Kambera_Rindi92:GRC10047588
Distance: 1.5452% / 0.01545236
52.6 Murut
24.0 Papuan
13.6 LAO_LN_BA
6.4 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
1.6 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA

Target: Kambera_Wunga12:GRC11049602
Distance: 1.7139% / 0.01713923
63.6 Murut
22.0 Papuan
7.2 LAO_LN_BA
2.2 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.8 Yemeni_Mahra
1.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA


Target: Lamaholot_Flores_Bama112:GRC10041195
Distance: 1.9040% / 0.01904026
54.4 Murut
34.0 Papuan
4.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
4.0 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 LAO_LN_BA
0.2 Taiwan_N_Gongguan

Target: Lamaholot_Lembata_Hadakewa027:GRC11053154
Distance: 1.7718% / 0.01771774
52.4 Murut
39.2 Papuan
3.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
3.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


Target: Mandar34:GRC10041323
Distance: 2.0937% / 0.02093714
82.4 Murut
9.0 Papuan
3.0 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
2.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
2.2 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
1.0 Yemeni_Mahra


Target: Manggarai_Rampasasa005:GRC10047606
Distance: 1.8570% / 0.01856963
50.4 Murut
24.0 LAO_LN_BA
22.6 Papuan
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


Target: Ngadha_Bena39:GRC11049589
Distance: 2.3330% / 0.02333005
34.2 Papuan
21.2 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
19.2 Murut
17.0 LAO_LN_BA
4.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.2 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
0.4 Yemeni_Mahra
0.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA

Target: Pantar02:GRC11053188
Distance: 1.6050% / 0.01605021
49.8 Papuan
41.0 Murut
2.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
2.2 LAO_LN_BA
2.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA


Target: Tetum_Kamanasa65:GRC11049630
Distance: 1.5849% / 0.01584871
43.2 Murut
36.8 Papuan
14.0 Igorot_Kankanaey
2.6 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
2.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

There is only one Tetum sample from Umaklaran so didn't included here.

Target: Tetum_Umanen_Lawalu08::GRC11049632
Distance: 2.0475% / 0.02047493
35.2 Papuan
34.2 Murut
21.6 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
3.6 LAO_LN_BA
2.0 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.8 Yemeni_Mahra
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


Now finally the most Western-shifted Western Indonesians and Malays:

Target: Batak_Toba26:GRC11053574 (this individual has 11% Caucasoid which is very high for Indonesia)
Distance: 2.1038% / 0.02103828
63.0 Murut
18.4 LAO_LN_BA
8.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.8 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
2.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
1.0 Papuan

Target: Indonesian_Bali/Balinese:GRC10041162 (actually two other Balinese samples: Indonesian_Bali:GRC10041174 and Indonesian_Bali:GRC10041170 scores same amount of Caucasoid which is 4.6% but I choose this individual to post because he/she seems to be the most western-shifted in terms of coordinates)
Distance: 2.5787% / 0.02578668
64.4 LAO_LN_BA
30.0 Murut
2.4 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Papuan

Target: Indonesian_Java/Javanese:GRC10041184
Distance: 2.5014% / 0.02501356
67.4 LAO_LN_BA
16.0 Murut
9.6 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.8 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.6 Papuan
0.6 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA


Target: Malay_Malaysia:GRC11053504 (almost 13% which is high)
Distance: 2.2751% / 0.02275083
37.4 LAO_LN_BA
31.0 Murut
10.8 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
8.2 Han_Zhejiang
7.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.8 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA


Target: Malay_Singapore:Malay5 (17% Caucasoid but also high Chinese blood)
Distance: 1.4436% / 0.01443621
25.8 Murut
20.4 Han_Zhejiang
20.4 LAO_LN_BA
14.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
10.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.6 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
2.2 Papuan

Target: Mentawai063:GRC11053521
Distance: 1.7590% / 0.01759046
80.6 Murut
8.8 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
5.8 Han_Zhejiang
2.2 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
1.2 Papuan
1.0 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
0.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N


Target: Nias_Gomo:GRC10047598
Distance: 1.5612% / 0.01561178
82.4 Murut
10.2 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
3.0 Han_Zhejiang
2.0 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)
1.6 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
0.8 Yemeni_Mahra

Target: Nias_Hilitobara:GRC10047590
Distance: 2.4401% / 0.02440087
58.6 Murut
27.8 Taiwan_N_Gongguan
8.6 LAO_LN_BA
2.6 Papuan
2.0 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
0.4 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)

- Malays seem to have the highest West Eurasian out of all the populations in this run which makes sense. Also the most Western-shifted Batak Toba is around 11% Caucasoid which is rather high for Indonesians.

-The most Western-shifted Ngada and Lamaholot individuals also have around 5 to 6% Caucasoid which is pretty high for Eastern Indonesia. Looks like the Ngada, Lamaholot have more Indian ancestry than other Eastern Indonesians. What's interesting is the most Western-shifted Manggarai (from Rampasasa) individual has only 3% Western Eurasian despite living in Western Flores meanwhile the Ngada and Lamaholot live more in Central and Eastern Flores and Lembata. Maybe there isn't enough sampling of the Manggarai.

- Nias and Mentawai seems to have the lowest.

[Incal]

Dunno but in Korea and Japan "filipino" is used as a racial slur.

[Hasien]

Dunno but in Korea and Japan "filipino" is used as a racial slur.

Very true, but In Malaysia as well had a friend from there, they get offended If you associated them with Pinoys for some reason.

[Incal]

Very true, but In Malaysia as well had a friend from there, they get offended If you associated them with Pinoys for some reason.

It seems, among other things, that Flips (no pun intended) are like the asian mexicans.

[Hasien]

It seems, among other things, that Flips (no pun intended) are like the asian mexicans.

More like Peruvians to be fair, austroasian and andid are very related phenotype speaking

[Incal]

More like Peruvians to be fair, austroasian and andid are very related phenotype speaking

Were you not the one who proudly claimed filipinos and mexicans were related on another thread? Anyway, I should have been more explicit since people only think about race here: Filipinos migrate all over Asia and they are well known to do any kind of menial jobs in the region.

[Hasien]

Were you not the one who proudly claimed filipinos and mexicans were related on another thread? Anyway, I should have been more explicit since people only think about race here: Filipinos migrate all over Asia and they are well known to do any kind of menial jobs in the region.

Filipinos and mexicans do over lap but only like 5-10% of Filipinos pass among mexicans all of them would pass as a fully amerindian or pred mexicans not mestizos. pseudo Andid phenotypes can look pseudo malay phenotype.

But you are to Ignorant to know this.

[Incal]

pseudo Andid phenotypes can look pseudo malay phenotype.

But you are to Ignorant to know this.

[Zanzibar]

Filipinos and mexicans do over lap but only like 5-10% of Filipinos pass among mexicans all of them would pass as a fully amerindian or pred mexicans not mestizos. pseudo Andid phenotypes can look pseudo malay phenotype.

But you are to Ignorant to know this.

It's main the Far Southern Mexicans such as Mayans, Oaxacans who Flips can pass in my opinion because they have round faces, flatter wide nose, short height, thick lips and straight black hair like Pinos. Northern Mexican and Central Mexican Natives aka Margids and Pueblids such as Tarahumara, Pima, Otomi, Huichol look very different from Pinoys, being taller, have sharper hook nose, longer face, and more robust body types and Flips don't really pass among them or easily. Correct me if I am wrong on this.

[Incal]

It's main the Far Southern Mexicans such as Mayans, Oaxacans who Flips can pass in my opinion because they have round faces, flatter wide nose, short height, thick lips and straight black hair like Pinos. Northern Mexican and Central Mexican Natives such as Tarahumara, Pima, Otomi, Huichol look very different from Pinoys, being taller, have sharper hook nose, longer face, and more robust body types and Flips don't really pass among them or easily. Correct me if I am wrong on this.

THIS. In any case, I think filipinos look closer to the brazilids.